Apr 25, 2022 Governance & Priorities Committee

[00:00:04]

AND I'LL CALL OUR GOVERNANCE AND PRIORITIES COMMITTEE MEETING FOR MONDAY, APRIL 25TH, 2022 TO ORDER.

[1. Opening Statement]

FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL, IT'S BEEN THE TRADITIONAL LAND OF THE YELLOWKNIFE DENE FIRST NATION.

WE RESPECT THE HISTORIES, LANGUAGES AND CULTURES OF ALL OTHER INDIGENOUS PEOPLES, INCLUDING THE NORTH SLAVE MÉTIS AND ALL FIRST NATIONS, MÉTIS AND INUIT, WHOSE PRESENCE CONTINUES TO ENRICH OUR VIBRANT COMMUNITY.

JUST CONFIRM WE'RE ON WEBCAST.

[2. Approval of the agenda.]

ANYTHING FURTHER TO ADD MS. BASSI-KELLETT? THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR.

NO, NOTHING ELSE TO ADD.

[3. Disclosure of pecuniary interest and the general nature thereof.]

DOES ANY MEMBER.

COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

YEAH, I'D LIKE TO DECLARE FOR ITEM NUMBER SEVEN AS PER MY WIFE'S POSITION WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF LANDS, PROBABLY BEST THAT I DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THAT CONVERSATION.

THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU.

ANYTHING FURTHER? SEEING NONE.

[4. A presentation from Mr. Rob Warburton, President of the Yellowknife Chamber of Commerce, regarding the mill rate ratio for the 2022 taxation year.]

SO I'LL HAND IT OVER TO YOU, ROB.

THANK YOU. YEAH, I'M ROB WARBURTON FROM THE YELLOWKNIFE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

AND YEAH, WE'RE HERE TO GIVE A PRESENTATION ABOUT MILL RATE RATIOS.

SO WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT PUBLIC CONSULTATION.

WE'RE GOING TO GO OVER THE IMPACT ON BUSINESS TO THOSE MILL RATE RATIOS.

THE STABILITY AND PREDICTABILITY ARGUMENT COMPARING TO OTHER JURISDICTIONS.

SOME RECOMMENDATIONS WE HAVE TO COUNCIL TO IMPROVE HOW THAT OPERATES.

AND THEN A LITTLE SUMMARY.

SO MORE AND MORE, OUR COMMUNITIES TAX BURDEN HAS BEEN GRADUALLY BUT CONTINUOUSLY PLACED ON YELLOWKNIFE BUSINESSES.

OVER THE PAST 15 YEARS, WE'VE SEEN MILL RATE INCREASES CONTINUALLY GO UP.

GENERALLY, EVERY ASSESSMENT ON THE COMMERCIAL WHEN I SAY MILL RATES WE'RE REFERRING TO RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL MILL RATES.

SO IT'S THE MILL RATE RATIO FOR COMMERCIAL VERSUS RESIDENTIAL.

SO IT'S GONE UP CONSISTENTLY YEAR OVER YEAR OR EVERY TIME THERE'S AN ASSESSMENT.

NEED TO CONSIDER THE LONG TERM IMPACTS OF COVID ON THE YELLOWKNIFE BUSINESS COMMUNITY WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT PROPERTY TAXATION AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO GO OVER IS KIND OF A THERE'S BEEN NO POLICY OR PROCESS.

IT SEEMS TO BE LIKE REINVENTING THE WHEEL EVERY TIME IT COMES TO COUNCIL.

SO YOU GOT SOME RECOMMENDATIONS AROUND SETTING A POLICY SO WE CAN NOT HAVE A CONVERSATION EVERY TIME WE TALK ABOUT TAXES AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INCREASING THE COMMERCIAL MILL RATE RATIO IN RELATION TO THE RESIDENTIAL RATIO.

IF YOU DO THAT OVER TIME, IT WILL ONLY FURTHER INCREASE THE BURDEN ON A RELATIVELY SMALL BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND IN FACT SHRINKING.

SO KIND OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR CURRENT STATUS QUO ARE JUST GOING TO ACCELERATE THAT.

THE STABILITY AND PREDICTABILITY ARGUMENT SO PAST CHANGES TO MILL RATE RATIO IN THE NAME OF MAINTAINING THE RELATIVE PORTION OF TAXATION.

SO IT'S 50 50 CONTRIBUTION AMOUNT.

SO IT'S IN THE NEXT THE [INAUDIBLE] FROM COUNCIL AND I HAVE A PDF THERE, BUT IT BASICALLY OVER TIME WE'VE KEPT HALF A TAX BASE COMING FROM COMMERCIAL AND HALF RESIDENTIAL.

AND I'LL GO INTO WHY THAT'S A PROBLEM AS AN APPROACH GOING FORWARD.

AND WE'VE BEEN SHRINKING THE LAST 20 YEARS RELATIVE TO PROPERTY CLASSES.

RESIDENTIAL IS RELATIVELY BOOMED COMPARED TO COMMERCIAL.

AND IF WE MAINTAIN THIS 50 50 RATIO, YOU'RE ASKING LESS COMMERCIAL OWNERS TO CONTINUALLY INPUT MORE AND MORE AND MORE MONEY TOWARDS TAXATION TO KIND OF OFFSET THIS GROWTH IN RESIDENTIAL TAXATION.

WHICH ISN'T FAIR. COMPARISONS TO JURISDICTIONS.

EVERY JURISDICTION HAS A UNIQUE VALUE PROPOSITION TO JUSTIFY THE COMMERCIAL TAX BASE SERVICES THEY PROVIDE, LOCATION.

BIGGER CITIES LIKE, SAY, CALGARY, THEY HAVE MUCH MORE EXTENSIVE SUITES AND BENEFITS FOR COMMERCIAL OWNERS.

HERE WE GET STANDARD BUSINESS CITY SERVICES AND IT HASN'T CHANGED FOR 20 YEARS.

YELLOWKNIFE USES DEPRECIATED REPLACEMENT COST VERSUS MARKET VALUE.

SO THIS IS WHAT'S BROUGHT UP IN THE CONSULTATION.

COMPARING YELLOWKNIFE, WHICH IS OUR LAST POINT TO ANY OTHER CITY, IS REALLY POINTLESS BECAUSE ALMOST EVERY OTHER CITY THAT IS COMPARED TO EVEN IN THE CONSULTATION, THEY'RE ALL MARKET VALUE. SO YOU SEE CALGARY GO A 4.0 MILL RATE, THEN A ONE, THEN A SIX.

IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE ADJUSTING TO MARKET VALUATION, WHICH WE DON'T DO.

WE DO ASSESS VALUE.

SO YOU'RE COMPARING SAYING THAT OUR RATES ARE NORMAL COMPARED TO OTHER JURISDICTIONS IS REALLY NOT A COMPARISON BECAUSE IT'S AN APPLE TO AN ORANGE.

THEY'RE JUST COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WAYS OF LOOKING AT VALUATION.

IT SHOULD BE MORE ABOUT WHAT DO WE WANT TO DO AS A COMMUNITY, WHAT IS FAIR, HOW DO WE [INAUDIBLE] TAX FOR EVERYBODY IN A WAY THAT IS EQUAL? AND BY EQUAL, I DON'T MEAN EQUAL MILL RATES, I MEAN INCREASES IN TAXATION.

SO YEAH, WE CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT WHAT ARE WE DOING.

RIGHT. AND THE POINT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT TOO IS THE YOU KNOW COUNCIL DECIDES TO UP THE MILL RATE VERSUS RESIDENTIAL FOR COMMERCIAL.

WE HAVE CONSISTENTLY AS A BUSINESS COMMUNITY SEE NO EXTRA VALUE ADD FOR THAT.

SO YOU'RE ASKING US TO PAY MORE MONEY, BUT WE'RE GETTING NOTHING MORE IN RETURN, RIGHT?

[00:05:03]

RIGHT. SO THAT'S PRETTY HARD TO SWALLOW.

THE RECOMMENDATIONS.

TIMING DISCUSSIONS. COUNCIL SHOULD COMMIT TO A MILL RATE PHILOSOPHY IN DECEMBER, INCLUDING IMPLICATIONS FOR ALL SIX MILL RATE CATEGORIES, EVEN IF IT REQUIRES A VERY SLIGHT ADJUSTMENT THE FOLLOWING SPRING.

SO, AS WAS POINTED OUT IN YOUR CONSULTATIONS, THERE IS REALLY STRICT CONTROL TIMELINE AROUND WHEN YOU CAN DO THINGS AROUND TAXATION AND RATES. IT'S VERY STRUCTURED.

WE GET THAT. SO YOU CAN'T SET A MILL RATE UNTIL WHEN WE DO IN JUNE OR JULY.

THERE'S NO REASON COUNCIL CAN'T MAKE.

WHEN YOU DO BUDGET, WHENEVER JUST THINKING ABOUT BUDGETS AND TAXES, YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO OUR GOAL IS TO MAINTAIN THE MILL RATE THIS YEAR.

NOW HOW THAT ACTUALLY LANDS IN TENTHS OR PERCENTAGE POINTS, THAT MIGHT GET ADJUSTED IN THE SPRING.

BUT THERE'S NO REASON WE CAN'T HAVE A DISCUSSION AT THAT TIME, BECAUSE THIS DISCONNECT RIGHT NOW MEANS THAT THERE'S JUST NO ONE PAYING ATTENTION IN JUNE OR JULY BESIDES BUSINESS PEOPLE. GENERALLY, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MILL RATES, THE DISCUSSION TIME TO HAVE THAT WITH COUNCIL IS I THINK WHEN YOU'RE TALKING TO YOUR BUDGET BECAUSE THEY'RE INTERTWINED.

THE ONLY REASON THOSE ARE CURRENTLY SEPARATED IS BECAUSE OF LEGISLATION.

RIGHT. TERRITORIAL.

SO WE'D LOVE TO SEE THAT DONE EXACTLY THE SAME TIME AND SET IN STONE.

BUT FOR VARIOUS REASONS WHICH ADMIN POINTED OUT WE CAN'T DO THAT.

ANY PROPERTY TAX DISCUSSIONS IN COMMUNICATION, INCLUDING THOSE PRIOR TO BUDGET PEOPLE NEED TO BE INCLUDE THE NUANCE IN MILL RATE SO EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS WHAT'S GOING ON.

MILL RATES ARE VERY CONFUSING.

RIGHT? THEY'RE NOT SIMPLE THINGS TO UNDERSTAND.

SO MAKING SURE THAT THAT IS PLAIN LANGUAGE AND COMMUNICATE REALLY WELL TO ALL RATEPAYERS, INCLUDING RESIDENTIAL RATEPAYERS.

I KNOW THAT OFTEN GETS BACKLASH WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MILL RATES AND TAX INCREASES, PEOPLE GET VERY UPSET.

BUT JUST NOT HAVING THAT CONVERSATION AROUND MILL RATES AND WHO PAYS FOR WHAT TO AVOID A FIGHT IS NOT A WHICH HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST IS NOT IT'S NOT A GOOD WAY TO DEAL WITH IT.

TAXATION POLICY RECOMMEND COUNCIL, DEVELOP AND PUBLISH A POLICY ABOUT THE MILL RATE RATIO AND THE PHILOSOPHICAL APPROACH OF PROPERTY TAX DISTRIBUTION COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO ADOPT.

SO CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW THIS DISTRIBUTION OF HALF AND HALF, ROUGHLY HALF THE TAXES ARE PAID BY RESIDENTS.

HALF ARE PAID BY COMMERCIAL OR BUSINESSES.

THAT'S BEEN STANDARD PRACTICE IN THE CITY.

THAT'S NEVER BEEN ARTICULATED IN ACTUAL POLICY.

AND WE CAN GO AND I'LL GO INTO THE REASONS WHY THIS IS INCREDIBLY IMPACTS BUSINESSES UNFAIRLY.

BUT SO WE WANT THOSE SET IN COUNCIL POLICY.

SO WE ALL AGREE AHEAD OF TIME.

SO THE NEXT COUNCIL COMES IN.

NEXT COUNCIL ARE NOT JUST DOING THIS EVERY SINGLE TIME TO REINVENT THE WHEEL.

YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING TO BASE IT OFF OF.

IT DOESN'T REMOVE YOUR ABILITY TO CHANGE THINGS.

IT JUST KIND OF SETS A STANDARD, [INAUDIBLE] COUNCIL TO CLEARLY SET OUT THEIR INTENTIONS, THE STRATEGY, FOR MILL RATE RATIOS IN A WAY IN WHICH THE PROPERTY TAX BURDEN IS DISTRIBUTED. SO RIGHT NOW, WE'VE NOTICED THAT THE CONVERSATION AROUND MILL RATES AND ALL THE BACKGROUND [INAUDIBLE] IN THE CITY MEMO IS AROUND IS WHERE COUNCIL'S LOOKED AT BRINGING IT 1 TO 1 OR 1 TO 2.

THAT'S PART OF THE CONVERSATION AROUND IS IT FAIR TO HAVE THAT DIFFERENCE IN MILL RATES? I THINK IT'S FAIR THAT COMMERCIAL SHOULD PAY MORE THAN RESIDENTIAL.

THAT'S KIND OF SET STANDARD ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

BUT THERE'S TWO PARTS TO THIS CONVERSATION.

ONE IS MILL RATES AND ONE IS WHY WE ADJUST THEM.

AND I GUESS THE SECOND PART IS REALLY KIND OF WHAT WE'RE GETTING AT IS THIS CONSTANT NEED IT SEEMS TO HAVE THE BURDEN 50 50.

SO IN THE PAST TEN YEARS, THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE'S ADDED I DON'T KNOW 1500 RESIDENTIAL UNITS, MAYBE MORE.

IF YOU'RE LUCKY, THEY ADDED 100 COMMERCIAL UNITS.

NOT COUNTING THE HOSPITAL, BUT WE'VE INCREASED OUR TAX BASE RESIDENTIAL.

AND SO TO KEEP THIS 50 50, THAT'S WHY THE MILL RATES GONE UP AND THOSE LITTLE STEPS.

IT'S NOT BECAUSE THE ASSESSMENT BASE IN COMMERCIAL IS INCREASED IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE A HUGE BASE INCREASE IN RESIDENTIAL.

AND SO NOW COMMERCIAL JUST GETS CRANKED UP TO MATCH IT, TO HIT THIS COMPLETELY ARBITRARY 50 50 DIVISION, WHICH IS NOT A POLICY WHICH IS SOMETHING EVEN KIND OF THAT STABILITY PART. WELL, IT'S STABLE FOR EVERYBODY.

IT'S GOOD FOR RESIDENTS THAT KEEPS US STABLE FOR THEM.

BUT IT'S NOT STABLE FOR BUSINESS.

AND MY TAXES GO UP BY 15%.

RIGHT. TO GET THIS RATIO, WHICH WE'VE GIVEN NO RATIONALE WHY THAT 50 50 MATTERS.

RIGHT. THE PRESUMPTION IS THAT YOU COUNCIL PASS A TAX INCREASE THAT IS EASILY BURDENSOME AMONG EVERYBODY IN THE CITY WHEN IN FACT THAT'S NOT WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING.

IT'S BEEN LOADED UP TO COMMERCIAL EVERY TIME THERE'S GENERALLY A GENERAL ASSESSMENT.

SO THEY GET CRANKED UP.

IT FEELS LIKE TO US TO AVOID A FIGHT WITH RESIDENTS HAVE A BIG ASSESSMENT INCREASE RIGHT.

SO JUST WANT IT TO BE FAIR.

SO IF YOU SAY 4% AT COUNCIL, THE PRESUMPTION I THINK THE GENERAL PUBLIC WOULD BE THAT'S 4% FOR EVERYONE JUST LIKE THAT AS A POLICY.

SO WE'RE NOT JUST AIMING FOR THIS 50 50 ALL THE TIME, WHICH MEANS THAT'S NOT HOW IT ACTUALLY LANDS.

SO IT GETS CRANKED UP ON COMMERCIAL JUST AND THE RESIDENTS JUST GET TO KEEP THEIR TAX INCREASES LOWER BECAUSE THERE'S MORE OF THEM BEING BUILT.

[00:10:04]

I UNDERSTAND THERE'S LEGISLATIVE BOXES HERE OVER WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT HAVE FOR CLASSES.

THEY'RE LAID OUT BY THE TOWNS VILLAGES ACT.

BUT BASICALLY YOU WANT TO SMALL BUSINESSES TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY BENEFIT FROM IT.

WHAT IS SMALL? WHAT THE MILL RATE SHOULD BE? [INAUDIBLE] CLASSIFICATION OR WHATEVER IT'S CALLED.

AND HOW TO MAKE SURE IT WORKS.

AND WE THINK THIS WORK IS IMPORTANT.

WE'VE HAD LIKE I SAID, THERE'S RIGHT NOW YOUR TAX BASE HAS COMMERCIAL.

SO IF IT'S A SINGLE LOCALLY OWNED SMALL BUILDING VERSUS A HUGE TOWER, THEY'RE ALL TAXED EXACTLY THE SAME RATE.

AND WE ALL KNOW IT'S NOT THE SAME IMPACT.

RIGHT. YOU INCREASED YOUR TAXES 4% ON A SINGLE SMALL BUILDING VERSUS A BIG TOWER.

THERE'S DIFFERENT ECONOMIES OF SCALE THERE.

WE DID READ AHEAD TO THE CITY MEMO YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO SEE AFTER US.

WE'D HAVE LOVED TO BE PART OF THAT DISCUSSION.

YOU KNOW, YES A SMALL PORTION OF THE CITY'S BUSINESS COMMUNITY OWNS THEIR BUILDINGS, BUT THAT'S ONLY ONE POTENTIAL OPTION FOR FINDING A NEW CLASS OF MILL RATE.

SO, YEAH, IF THERE'S FURTHER DISCUSSION ON KIND OF HOW THIS COULD BE ACTIONED, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR.

LET US KIND OF HELP YOU FIGURE OUT OR ADMINISTRATION FIGURE OUT OPTIONS THERE, BECAUSE JUST GOING BY OWNERSHIP IS ONE VERSION.

IT'S NOT THE ONLY VERSION.

CHAMBER ASKS THE CURRENT COUNCIL FORMALLY ARTICULATE A TAXATION PHILOSOPHY OR POLICY TO ASSIST FUTURE COUNCILS AND THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, UNDERSTANDING WHY SMALL BUSINESSES SHOULD EXPERIENCE ACCELERATED TAX INCREASES RELATIVE TO OTHER PROPERTY CLASSES, WHICH HAS BEEN HAPPENING HISTORICALLY.

ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT A GENERAL ASSESSMENT YEAR, I THINK IT'S A PERFECT TIME TO DO IT.

SO YOU'RE NOT UNDER THAT PRESSURE OF A GENERAL ASSESSMENT WHERE EVERYBODY'S FREAKING OUT ABOUT THEIR VALUATIONS GOING UP AND GETS ALL CONFUSED WHEN MILL RATES GO UP AND DOWN AND MOVE AROUND. SO LET'S DO IT NOW WHEN WE HAVE THIS ABILITY IN THE TIME AND SPACE TO DO IT BEFORE WE GET INTO BUDGET AND BIG SHIFTS IN THE BASE RATE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I'D LIKE TO TAKE QUESTIONS IF ANYBODY HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT MILL RATES.

THANK YOU, ROB. AND THANKS TO THE CHAMBER FOR THE SUBMISSION.

ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE PRESENTER? COUNCILOR MORGAN. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

THANKS, ROB, FOR PREPARING THE DETAILED PRESENTATION.

I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID.

I KNOW EVERY YEAR WE COME BACK TO THIS AND GO, THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE NECESSARILY, BUT.

AND I DON'T I DON'T HAVE A GOOD REASON OR EXPLANATION WHY THE AS YOU'VE SAID, SOMEWHAT ARBITRARY PROPORTION BETWEEN COMMERCIAL THE PROPORTION THAT COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES PAY VERSUS THE PROPORTION THAT RESIDENTIAL PAY OVERALL.

WHY IT'S SET IN A CERTAIN WAY.

I MEAN, IT WOULD BE ONE THING IF THE AMOUNT OF RESIDENTIAL OR AMOUNT OF COMMERCIAL DIDN'T CHANGE OVER TIME.

AND THEN I GUESS OUR POLICY IS THAT THAT'S THE PROPORTION THAT THE COMMERCIAL PAYS.

BUT I AGREE THAT IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE HAVE THE NUMBER OF RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES INCREASING WITHIN THAT SORT OF SET PERCENTAGE AND THE PROPORTION.

WELL, I MEAN, IT'S COMPLICATED.

SO TO ME, THE CRUX OF THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT WITHIN COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH NUANCE OR WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SUBCATEGORIES SO THAT SMALL BUSINESSES ARE BEING LUMPED INTO THE SAME CATEGORY AS, SAY, THE HOSPITAL OR PERHAPS OTHER LIKE A WALMART OR, YOU KNOW, AND ANYONE FALLS INTO THE SAME CATEGORY.

AND I KNOW WHEN WE DISCUSSED IT BEFORE.

THE CONCERN WAS OK IF WE SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE THE BURDEN ON COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL A LARGE PROPORTION OF THE REBATE OR SAVINGS ARE GOING TO GO TO, SAY, THE GNWT OR THE HOSPITAL OR THESE OTHER PEOPLE.

AND SO IN A SENSE, THEN YOU'RE LEFT WITH RESIDENTS SUBSIDIZING THESE HUGE INSTITUTIONAL OR INDUSTRIAL ENTERPRISES THAT ALSO DOESN'T FEEL FAIR.

SO THE IDEA IS HOW DO WE CREATE ENOUGH NUANCE THAT WE ARE BENEFITING THE GROUPS THAT WERE TRYING TO BENEFIT.

SO MY QUESTION FOR YOU IS, DO YOU HAVE ADVICE FOR THE CITY ON HOW WE MIGHT EFFECTIVELY AND EFFICIENTLY DEFINE EITHER SMALL BUSINESS, LOCALLY OWNED BUSINESS, AND HOW YOU MIGHT MONITOR OR ENFORCE THAT? OR ALTERNATIVELY, WOULD IT BE EASIER TO INSTITUTE SOME KIND OF REBATE SYSTEM FOR SMALLER, LOCALLY OWNED BUSINESSES AFTER THE FACT IN TERMS OF PROPERTY TAXES? HAVE YOU GUYS THOUGHT THIS THROUGH AT ALL IN TERMS OF WHAT A WORKABLE SYSTEM MIGHT BE? ROB AND JUST MAKE SURE YOU PUSH THE BUTTON.

[00:15:03]

BUT TAXATION CLASSES IS NOT OUR WHEELHOUSE.

IT WAS MORE, YOU KNOW, AS YOU WORK THROUGH THE OPTIONS, KIND OF HOW IT WOULD LAND IN REAL TIME. WE'D BE HAPPY TO KIND OF CHAT ABOUT HOW IT WOULD HAPPEN.

LIKE I SAID, OWNERSHIP IS ONE WAY OF DOING IT.

BUT GOING BACK MORE TO YOUR COMMENT ABOUT LIKE THERE'S TWO VERY DISTINCT THINGS HAPPENING HERE AND I THINK THERE'S SOME CONFUSION.

HAVING LIKE WE SEE IT AT COUNCIL EVERY TIME IT COMES UP, IS THE ASSUMPTION HAS BEEN TO JUST WANT TO PAY A LOWER MILL RATE AND LOAD UP RESIDENTIAL.

AND I THINK THAT'S A SIMPLIFICATION.

IT'S NOT [INAUDIBLE] LIKE.

BECAUSE WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING, TO BE FAIR, HAS BEEN THE OPPOSITE.

WE'VE BEEN LOADING UP COMMERCIAL EVERY TIME WE WANT TO DO EVERY TIME THERE'S A GENERAL ASSESSMENT, WE LOAD UP THE COMMERCIAL SIDE JUST SO WE DON'T ANGER OUR RESIDENTS ESSENTIALLY IS THE BEST [INAUDIBLE] WE CAN SEE.

SO ALL WE'RE ASKING IS THAT THAT STOPS HAPPENING RIGHT.

AT THE BASE IF WE GET NOTHING ELSE IS JUST STOP DISPROPORTIONATELY LOADING UP THE COMMERCIAL OWNERS WHO LEASE OR OWN TO EVERY BUSINESS IN THE CITY AND START APPLYING THOSE TAX INCREASES AND YOUR DECISIONS FAIRLY TO BOTH CLASSES BECAUSE I THINK IT'S JUST.

SURE WE'D LOVE THE TAX RATE TO BE LOWER AND THEN BUT THEN IT MOVES ON RESIDENTIAL BUT THAT'S BEEN HAPPENING FOR 20 YEARS TO COMMERCIAL.

WE'VE BEEN TAKING THE HIT EVERY TIME THERE'S BEEN A GENERAL ASSESSMENT IN A WAY THAT THE RESIDENTS AREN'T.

SO IT HASN'T BEEN FAIR.

SO WE JUST WANT IT TO BE FAIR.

AND IF THE MILL RATE MOVES BECAUSE OF OTHER REASONS, SURE.

BUT JUST FOR THIS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE TEN PEOPLE DOING COMMERCIAL AND TEN DOING RESIDENTIAL AND NOW YOU HAVE 20 RESIDENTIAL, AND THE WAY YOU MAKE THAT EVEN IS BY CRANKING UP THOSE TEN PEOPLE TO PAY MORE MONEY.

THAT'S WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING.

SO JUST AND THAT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE, RIGHT? SO LIKE WE JUST WANT THE TAXES TO LAND EVENLY AMONG ALL THE CLASSES.

SO TWO THINGS MILL RATE UP OR DOWN.

THAT'S A ONE DISCUSSION TO HAVE WHICH THE CITY HAS LAID OUT WELL IN THEIR MEMO.

THE OTHER ONE, WHICH IS NOT REALLY WELL LAID OUT, IS THIS 50 50 SPLIT.

THAT'S REALLY THE PROBLEM. THAT'S WHY YOU'VE SEEN TAXES ON COMMERCIAL GO UP EVERY SEVEN YEARS OR SIX YEARS OR WHATEVER THE ASSESSMENT IS, IS BECAUSE THIS PHILOSOPHY ABOUT EQUAL BURDEN VERSUS JUST A MILL RATE.

SO HOPE THAT ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION.

BUT JUST TO FOLLOW UP A LITTLE BIT, I MEAN.

CAN YOU GIVE US SOME INSIGHT ON HOW THOSE ARE DEFINED OR IS IT NOT VERY STRICTLY DEFINED OR ENFORCED, WHICH KINDS OF BUSINESSES CAN BE PART OF THOSE? ROB.

THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. YEAH, THOSE ARE FOR YELLOWKNIFE THERE'S MICRO AND TINY AND SMALL.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY LARGE BUSINESSES HERE EXCEPT FOR MAYBE LIKE THE MINES OR GOVERNMENT.

MOST BUSINESSES HERE ARE SMALL, MEDIUM, MOSTLY SMALL.

BY DEFINITION, IF YOU'RE LOOKING LIKE CRA DEFINITION OF SMALL.

AND HOW TO APPLY THAT TO A TAX BASE, I AGREE THAT'S VERY HARD TO DO AND I'M NOT QUITE SURE HOW YOU NUANCE THAT TO MAKE SURE YOU HIT KIND OF LOCAL VERSUS NATIONAL OWNERS VERSUS LARGE PROPERTY OWNERS VERSUS SMALL.

I ACTUALLY DON'T. IT'S A VERY NUANCED DISCUSSION, AND THAT'S WHAT WE LIKE TO HAVE.

IN THE [INAUDIBLE] THERE WAS WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, WHICH WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TAXATION AND THAT BURDEN AND THE RATIO, BUT WE HAVEN'T GOT INTO THAT AS AN OPTION.

OKAY. YEAH. SO FURTHER DISCUSSION WOULD BE HELPFUL IF WE COULD ALL KIND OF GET ON THE SAME PAGE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.

SURE. OKAY. THANKS FOR THAT.

THANK YOU, COUNCILLOR KONGE.

THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. YEAH.

THANKS, ROB, FOR COMING IN AND PRESENTED TO US TODAY.

AND I THINK REALLY, YOU KNOW, FROM THE BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, I THINK YOU NAILED IT THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERY YEAR WE'RE ASKING BUSINESS TO PAY HALF THE TAX BURDEN AND BUT ON ANY GIVEN YEAR, YOU KNOW THEY'RE PAYING HALF THE TAX BURDEN WITH 30% OF THE ASSESSMENT.

AND THEN THE NEXT YEAR THEY'RE PAYING HALF THE TAX BURDEN WITH 28% OF THE ASSESSMENT BECAUSE THERE'S SUCH GROWTH IN THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU'VE NAILED IT.

I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE NEED TO KIND OF SORT OUT.

AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, I'VE HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT MILL RATES AND HOW WE'RE DEALING WITH THIS, I THINK, FOR THE PAST FIVE YEARS, MAYBE EVEN MORE.

BUT I THINK WE NEED TO YEAH, LIKE YOU SAY, COME UP WITH A POLICY OF HOW WE DETERMINE THE BURDEN AND ENGAGE THE CHAMBERS AND BUSINESS OWNERS AND RESIDENTIAL OWNERS AS WELL, BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN, LIKE YOU SAY, KIND OF GETTING A LITTLE BIT OF WELL WE RAISE OUR TAXES BY 7% OR WHATEVER.

[00:20:08]

YOU'RE SEEING SLIGHTLY LESS WHERE THE BUSINESS SIDE IS, SEEING SLIGHTLY MORE BECAUSE OF OUR MILL RATES.

SO I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION.

I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY WELL DONE ON A VERY COMPLICATED ISSUE.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

AND JUST FOR THOSE ON THE WEBCAST, WE HAVE COUNCILLOR KONGE AND COUNCILLOR MORSE JOINING US ON THE PHONE TODAY.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE PRESENTER? WE WILL BE JUMPING INTO FURTHER DISCUSSION AFTER THAT, BUT.

COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS. YEAH, I DON'T REALLY HAVE A QUESTION, ROB, BECAUSE MOST OF IT'S TO ADMINISTRATION.

I JUST WANT TO SAY THANKS FOR FOR PRESENTING CERTAINLY HEAR WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM ON THAT.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A SOME KIND OF A WORKING GROUP AND SOME POLICY BE DETERMINED ON THAT ONE.

YOU KNOW MAYBE IT'S A LAND COVERAGE VERSUS A 50 50 SPLIT OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES OR DETERMINING MAYBE COST OF SERVICING FOR CERTAIN DISTRICTS OR WHATEVER ELSE AND THEN HAVING PROPORTIONS OF THOSE.

THAT'S WAYS WE CAN MAYBE GO AHEAD.

BUT I THINK THAT'S FOR MAYBE A FUTURE DISCUSSION.

BUT I WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR TAKING YOUR TIME AND HAVING SUCH A CLEAR, CONCISE PRESENTATION.

THANKS. THANK YOU.

I JUST HAVE YEAH A FEW QUESTIONS.

SO ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES IS, PATA, PROPERTY ASSESSMENT AND TAXATION ACT, WHICH IS THE TERRITORIAL LEGISLATION, WHICH GUIDES HOW WE CAN HAVE PROPERTY CLASSIFICATIONS AS WELL AS WHAT THE ASSESSOR, HOW THEY DEFINE IT.

SO WHEN I THINK OF THE SMALL BUSINESS ONE, WE WOULD END UP WITH JAVAROMA IN A BUILDING THAT WON'T BE ELIGIBLE BECAUSE IT WILL BE INSTITUTIONAL BUT BARREN GROUND THEIR COMPETITOR WILL GET THE TAX BREAKS SO THE TAXES GO UP FOR ONE DOWN FOR THE OTHER RAGGED ASS BARBERS VERSUS THE BARBER SHOP ACROSS THE STREET OR FOR WOMEN ONLY VERSUS MERMAID AND MOON.

AND AS YOU MENTIONED, AS WE ALSO RECEIVED ANOTHER LETTER FROM A RESIDENT AND JUST THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES, ALBERTA VERSUS B.C., ALL THAT STUFF, AND THE CURRENT ASSESSMENT MODEL VERSUS MOVING TO A MARKET VALUE ASSESSMENT AND THE GNWT ALWAYS SAYS THEY'RE GOING TO DO PATA.

IT'S NOT THIS TERM AGAIN, IT'S BEEN BUMPED ONE MORE TERM.

HAS THE CHAMBER STARTED TO THINK ABOUT RECOMMENDATIONS THEY WANT A SEE CHANGED SO THAT WE CAN WORK ON ADDRESSING SOME OF THESE ISSUES.

AND I CAN SAY MORE DURING OUR COMMENTS, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO START HAVING THE DISCUSSIONS ON WHAT DO WE WANT TO SEE FOR PATA SO THAT WE CAN THEN MAKE CHANGES TO THE CITY BY-LAWS TO ALIGN.

SO HAS THE CHAMBER STARTED THINKING ABOUT PATA CHANGES? THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. WE'VE HAD VERY HIGH LEVEL DISCUSSIONS, BUT LIKE MOST FOLKS WE'VE BEEN FOCUSED ON THE COVID RESPONSES FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, SO WHEN THE GNWT GETS AROUND TO IT, WHICH SOUNDS LIKE NEVER, YEAH, WE'LL DEFINITELY BE IN THE WEEDS ON THAT BECAUSE IT'S CURRENTLY IT'S A BIG, BLUNT TOOL.

IT'S NOT VERY NUANCED.

I KNOW THEY WALKED IT BACK FROM A VERY COMPLEX ONE TO A SIMPLER ONE, BUT IT'S REALLY KIND OF YELLOWKNIFE HAD GOT HAY RIVER AND NUNAVIK ARE KIND OF PAYING FOR THAT BECAUSE IF WE HAVE A LOT OF NUANCE HERE, AS YOU SAID, SO HAPPY TO DO IT WHEN IT COMES UP.

BUT YEAH, IT'S NOT ON OUR WHEELHOUSE RIGHT NOW.

IT IS A CHALLENGE TO START WORKING ON IT NOW AND THE REVIEW WOULD PROBABLY BE TWO YEARS DOWN THE ROAD.

BUT DEFINITELY I THINK BOTH THE CITY PERSPECTIVE AND THE CHAMBER'S PERSPECTIVE TO CONTINUE TO PUSH THEM, TO LET THEM KNOW THAT THIS IS IMPORTANT LEGISLATION.

SO I APPRECIATE THAT.

SEEING NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.

AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR COMING TODAY AND FOR YOUR SUBMISSION.

NEXT ON OUR AGENDA, WE HAVE A MEMORANDUM REGARDING WHETHER TO MAINTAIN THE MUNICIPAL PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY DISTRIBUTION AS REFLECTED BY THE COMMERCIAL TO RESIDENTIAL

[5. A memorandum regarding whether to maintain the municipal property tax responsibility distribution, as reflected by the Commercial to Residential mill rate ratio, for the 2022 taxation year.]

MS. BASSI-KELLETT DO YOU HAVE ANY OPENING COMMENTS? THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR.

ABSOLUTELY. COUNCILLORS KNOW VERY WELL THAT CITY REVENUES COME FROM THREE MAJOR SOURCES.

THEY COME FROM GRANTS, FROM OTHER ORDERS OF GOVERNMENT FEES AND CHARGES AND OUR PROPERTY TAXES.

AND SO WHEN THE BUDGET IS SET EVERY YEAR, THERE IS THE EXPECTATION OF HOW MUCH PROPERTY TAXES OVERALL ARE NEEDED TO MEET OUR REVENUE NEEDS FOR A BALANCED BUDGET.

NOW, OF COURSE, OUR MILL RATES ARE A BIG FACTOR IN THERE.

AND AS JUST DISCUSSED, PATA IS REALLY THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND A LOT OF THAT.

OUR COMMERCIAL TO RESIDENTIAL MILL RATE RATIO HAS BEEN 2.26 TO 1 SINCE 2019, AND WE DO TYPICALLY CHANGE THIS WHEN THERE ARE ADJUSTMENTS TO GENERAL ASSESSMENT.

WE DID UNDERTAKE THE PUBLIC CONSULTATIONS THIS YEAR THAT COUNCIL HAD ASKED US TO DO WHEN THIS DISCUSSION HAPPENED LAST YEAR.

WE WERE HAPPY TO DO SO AND WE REALLY APPRECIATE THAT THE COMPLEXITY OF TAX POLICY AND THE IMPACTS ON BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTS IS ONE THAT MANY PEOPLE FEEL.

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SO WE APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE COME IN TO US AROUND THIS DISCUSSION.

I'LL TURN THINGS OVER NOW TO MS. WOODWARD, WHO WILL PROVIDE AN UPDATE FROM CITY ADMINISTRATION'S PERSPECTIVE.

OVER TO YOU, SHAROLYNN.

THANK YOU, MS. BASSI-KELLETT.

WELL, THIS IS A SWITCH GETTING BACK TO IN-PERSON, AND I MUST ADMIT YOU ARE CLOSER THAN YOU USED TO BE.

AS COMMITTEE IS AWARE EACH YEAR ADMINISTRATION BRINGS FORWARD MILL RATES RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE NEEDED TO RAISE THE REVENUE REQUIREMENTS AS IDENTIFIED IN THAT YEAR'S BUDGET.

AND AS WAS JUST EXPLAINED, THESE MILL RATES DISTRIBUTE THE PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY AMONG DIFFERENT TYPES OF PROPERTY OWNERS.

AND EACH YEAR, COMMITTEE AND COUNCIL REQUESTS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DEBATE THE DISTRIBUTION IN ADVANCE OF THE MILL RATE DISCUSSIONS COMING FORWARD.

SO TODAY'S MEETING PROVIDES YOU WITH THAT OPPORTUNITY PRIOR TO THE 2022 MILL RATES BEING BROUGHT FORWARD.

JUST TO ENSURE EVERYONE'S ON THE SAME PAGE, I'M GOING TO VERY QUICKLY REVIEW SOME OF THE BASICS AROUND PROPERTY TAXATION HERE, BEGINNING WITH WHY SOMETIMES THIS IS SOMETHING WE LOSE SIGHT OF. BUT THE MOST BASIC ANSWER TO THE WHY IS THAT BECAUSE THE CITY, LIKE ANY OTHER MUNICIPALITY, WAS ESTABLISHED TO OR BECAME INTO EXISTENCE TO PROVIDE SERVICES, ESPECIALLY SERVICES TO THE BROAD PUBLIC THAT CAN'T EFFICIENTLY OR EFFECTIVELY BE PROVIDED BY THE PUBLIC OR PRIVATE SECTOR.

SORRY. THESE INCLUDE THINGS LIKE CORE SERVICES OUR FIRE AND AMBULANCE, WATER AND SEWER ROADS AND SIDEWALKS.

AND THESE SERVICES ALSO INCLUDE FACILITIES, TRAILS, PARKS, THINGS THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THE QUALITY OF LIFE THAT YELLOWKNIFERS HAVE COME TO EXPECT.

AS WELL THINGS LIKE PROGRAMS THAT OFFER A WIDE VARIETY OF RECREATIONAL, EDUCATIONAL AND SOCIAL OPPORTUNITIES.

NOW, PROVIDING THESE SERVICES REQUIRES RESOURCES AND THE CITY HAS SURPRISINGLY FEW.

AS MS. BASSI-KELLETT JUST POINTED OUT, MOST OF OUR REVENUES COME FROM PROPERTY TAXATION, USER CHARGES AND GOVERNMENT GRANTS, WITH INTEREST AND LAND SALES PROVIDING JUST THAT LAST SLIVER OF THE PIE.

NOW, THIS LIMITED MENU IS FURTHER CONSTRAINED BY THE FACT THAT THE CITY HAS TO HAVE A BALANCED BUDGET, MEANING IT MUST FIND REVENUES TO COVER ALL OF THESE EXPENDITURES EVERY YEAR. BUT WHAT GIVES THE CITY THE AUTHORITY TO COLLECT THESE TAXES? AS HAS BEEN MENTIONED EARLIER TODAY IN A NUTSHELL, MOST OF THE AUTHORITY ALSO COMES IN THE FORMS OF THE RULES SPELLED OUT IN TERRITORIAL LEGISLATION, NAMELY THE PROPERTY ASSESSMENT AND TAXATION ACT AND ALL OF ITS ASSOCIATED REGULATIONS.

WE HAVE SOME BY-LAWS THAT LAY OUT CITY SPECIFIC PROCESSES THE TAX ADMIN, FINANCIAL ADMIN AND THE FEES AND CHARGES BY-LAW.

SO THIS FRAMEWORK NOT ONLY ESTABLISHES THE AUTHORITY FOR THE CITY TO COLLECT THE PROPERTY TAXES, BUT IT ALSO MAKES PROPERTY TAXATION ONE OF THE MORE PRESCRIPTIVE AND REGULATED PROCESSES WITHIN ADMINISTRATION.

SO THE CITY NEEDS TO COLLECT MONEY.

WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY.

HOW DO WE FIGURE OUT HOW IT WORKS? IT STARTS WITH THE BUDGET.

EACH YEAR YOU APPROVE A BUDGET THAT SETS OUT WHAT SERVICES THE CITY WILL PROVIDE AND HOW MONEY WILL BE SPENT TO PROVIDE THOSE.

AGAIN BECAUSE THE BUDGET HAS TO BE BALANCED THAT BUDGET ALSO SPECIFIES WHERE THE REVENUES ARE GOING TO COME FROM.

WE'RE TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT PROPERTY TAXATION AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT HAPPENS TO DETERMINE THAT PIECE OF THE PIE IS IT'S WHAT'S LEFT OVER AFTER ALL OF THE OTHER SOURCES OF FUNDING HAVE BEEN DETERMINED.

NOW ONCE THE ASSESSMENT ROLL IS FINALIZED IN THE SPRING, BECAUSE PATA SAYS THAT HAS TO BE DONE BEFORE YOU AS A COUNCIL CAN SET MILL RATES.

ONCE THAT'S DONE, THE CITY WILL BRING FORWARD THE MUNICIPAL MILL RATE BY-LAW.

COUNCIL WILL ALSO, AT THE SAME MEETING GENERALLY APPROVE A SCHOOL MILL RATE BY-LAW.

TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, WE JUST COLLECT TAXES ON BEHALF OF SCHOOL BOARDS.

SO TODAY WHEN I'M TALKING ABOUT TAXATION, WE'RE REALLY SPECIFICALLY JUST TALKING ABOUT MUNICIPAL, BECAUSE FROM THE CITY'S PERSPECTIVE, THE SCHOOL TAXES ARE AN IN AND OUT THING.

BUT ONCE YOU'VE SET THOSE TWO BY-LAWS, ADMINISTRATION THEN GOES AHEAD AND SENDS OUT THE TAX NOTICES TO GENERATE THAT REQUIRED REVENUE.

AND AS I SAID, WE KEEP THE MUNICIPAL HAND OFF THE SCHOOL TAXES.

NOW TURNING NOW TO HOW WE DO THAT CALCULATION ON THOSE TAX BILLS.

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THE OTHER FACTOR THAT GOES INTO IT IS HOW THAT PROPERTY IS USED.

NOW, AS COMMITTEE IS AWARE, A PROPERTY'S VALUE FOR TAXATION PURPOSES IS CALLED ITS ASSESSED VALUE.

A PROFESSIONAL ASSESSOR USES STANDARDS THAT ARE REGULATED BY OUR TERRITORIAL LEGISLATION.

AND THEY USE THOSE REGULATIONS TO ASSIGN ONE VALUE TO A PIECE OF LAND BASED ON MARKET VALUE AND ANOTHER VALUE TO THE IMPROVEMENT, THE BUILDINGS OR WHATEVER ON THAT LAND. AND THAT IS CURRENTLY DONE BASED ON THE TYPICAL DEPRECIATED REPLACEMENT COSTS.

AND AS HAS BEEN MENTIONED BEFORE, MACA IS KIND OF TALKING ABOUT MAYBE CHANGING THAT ALSO TO BE MARKET VALUE.

KEEP UP WITH THE REST OF CANADA.

THAT WILL BE A HUGE UNDERTAKING BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE STRUCTURE IN THE CITY WILL HAVE TO BE REASSESSED.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME, THAT'S HOW WE GET OUR LAND ASSESSED VALUES, IMPROVEMENT, ASSESSED VALUES.

WHEN WE ADD THEM TOGETHER, WE GET A PROPERTY TOTAL.

ADDING UP THE PROPERTY TOTALS FOR ALL OF THE TAXABLE PROPERTIES IN THE CITY GIVES US THE TOTAL OR WHAT'S OFTEN CALLED THE ASSESSMENT BASE.

SO IF WE LOOK AT HOW MUCH MONEY THE BUDGET SAYS WE HAVE TO RAISE FROM TAXATION.

DIVIDE IT BY THAT ASSESSMENT BASE WE GET A VERY CRUDE ANSWER OF HOW MUCH TAXATION IS DERIVED FROM EVERY DOLLAR OF ASSESSED VALUE, BUT THAT'S A REALLY SMALL NUMBER. SO WE TYPICALLY MULTIPLY IT BY 1000 TO GET WHAT WE ALL KNOW AS THE MILL RATE.

BEAR IN MIND, THE MILL RATE IS SIMPLY HOW MUCH TAXATION ACCRUES FROM EVERY $1,000 OF ASSESSED VALUE.

HOWEVER, WE ALL KNOW THAT NOT ALL PROPERTIES ARE USED FOR THE SAME PURPOSES.

SOME ARE HOUSING, SOME ARE BUSINESSES, SOME ARE MINING.

THE CITY'S TAX ADMINISTRATION BY-LAW DEFINES THESE SIX BASIC PROPERTY CLASSES.

THIS IS DOWN FROM, I BELIEVE, ABOUT 20 CLASSES PRE 2000.

THE PROBLEM THAT WAS BEING ENCOUNTERED THEN WAS THE CLASSES WERE SO FINE AND SO SUBJECT TO DISCUSSION THAT WE WERE GETTING APPEALS THAT NUMBERED IN THE THOUSANDS JUST OVER WHAT CLASS HAD BEEN ASSIGNED TO A PROPERTY.

FOR COMPARISON, THIS YEAR WE HAD FEWER THAN 20 APPEALS.

SO OUR BY-LAW SAYS EVERY PROPERTY FALLS INTO ONE OF THESE BASIC CLASSES.

AND THEN WHEN YOU ASSIGN MILL RATES, THOSE ARE WHAT ARE USED TO DETERMINE THE PROPERTY TAXES.

THESE HAPPEN TO BE THE 2021 MILL RATES BECAUSE WE'RE NOT QUITE AT THE POINT WHERE WE CAN SET THE 2022 RATES YET.

SO TO GET HOW MUCH TAX IS GOING TO BE ASSIGNED OR LEVIED ON A PARTICULAR PROPERTY, WE SIMPLY APPLIED THAT MILL RATE TO THE ASSESSED VALUE.

JUST TO WALK THROUGH WITH A REALLY SIMPLE EXAMPLE WITH LOW NUMBERS TO KEEP THE MATH BASIC.

IF WE'VE GOT A PROPERTY VALUED OR ASSESSED AT 100,000 TOTAL, IF THAT PROPERTY IS USED FOR RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES, THE TAXES WILL BE CALCULATED USING A MILL RATE OF 5.53.

SO LAST YEAR'S TAXES WOULD HAVE BEEN $553 DOLLARS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, IF THAT WAS A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, THE MILL RATE LAST YEAR WAS 12.5.

SO THE TAX BILL FOR THAT OWNER WOULD BE 1,250 DOLLARS.

THIS DEMONSTRATES HOW THE DIFFERING MILL RATES RESULT IN DIFFERING TAXATION RESPONSIBILITIES.

AND IT'S, QUITE FRANKLY, WHERE TAXATION MOVES FROM THE MATHEMATICAL TO THE PHILOSOPHICAL.

WHEN WE JUST LOOK AT MAKING SURE WE RAISE THE REQUIRED AMOUNT OF REVENUES, IT'S ALL BASICALLY A MATH PROBLEM.

BUT WHEN WE TRY TO LOOK AT HOW THAT RESPONSIBILITY IS DISTRIBUTED OR HOW THAT RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD BE DISTRIBUTED, THAT'S WHERE WE GET INTO THE PHILOSOPHICAL OR POLITICAL REALM.

AND IN THIS REALM, WE TYPICALLY LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND NONRESIDENTIAL.

AND WE TYPICALLY WILL, AS COUNCIL WILL RECALL, USE TWO COMPARISON LENSES.

THE ASSESSMENT TAXATION LENS AND THE ONE THAT MR. WARBURTON TALKED ABOUT EXTENSIVELY, THE MILL RATE RATIO LENS.

THE ASSESSMENT AND TAXATION LENS LOOKS AT THE COMPOSITION OF THE ASSESSMENT BASE AND THE COMPOSITION OF THE TAXATION CONTRIBUTIONS.

AND FOR THIS PURPOSE IS TYPICALLY RESIDENTIAL IS THE RESIDENTIAL, MULTI RESIDENTIAL AND AGRICULTURAL CLASSES, WHILE THE NON-RESIDENTIAL GROUP CONSISTS OF THE OTHER CLASSES.

WITH THIS GROUPING IN PLACE IF WE LOOK AT THE HISTORICAL ASSESSMENT BASED PERCENTAGES THAT SINCE WE'VE HAD OUR CURRENT SET OF CLASSES, WE SEE THAT

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WELL, OF COURSE RESIDENTS OR NON-RESIDENTIAL COMPRISE THE BALANCE.

AND FURTHERMORE WE SEE THAT THE HISTORICAL PROPERTY TAX CONTRIBUTIONS FROM EACH GROUP, THE DOTTED LINES, THOSE PRETTY CLOSELY FOLLOW THE TOTAL ASSESSED VALUE.

THE SECOND COMPARATIVE LENS, THE MILL RATE RATIO IS A SIMPLE MATHEMATICAL THING.

AFTER THE FACT, THE COMMERCIAL MILL RATE IS DIVIDED BY THE MILL RATE THE RESIDENTIAL MILL RATE AND YOU END UP WITH A RATIO.

THIS RATIO DOES NOT CONSIDER ANY OF THE OTHER MILL RATES, NOR DOES IT CONSIDER THE COMPOSITION OF THE ASSESSMENT BASE.

IF WE LOOK BACK A COUPLE OF DECADES, WE SEE THAT THE COMMERCIAL MILL RATE RATIO BACK IN THE YEAR 2000, THAT SIMPLE MATHEMATICAL EXERCISE YIELDED A RESULT OF 1.16.

IT SHIFTED IN 2007 TO 1.83, REFLECTING CHANGES THAT THE COUNCIL OF THE DAY MADE TO THE MILL RATES TO OFFSET THE RESULTS OR THE IMPACTS OF THE PREVIOUS YEAR'S GENERAL ASSESSMENT.

NEXT CHANGE WAS IN 2014, WHEN AGAIN THE COUNCIL OF THE DAY SET MILL RATES THAT ADJUSTED FOR THE 2013 GENERAL ASSESSMENT.

AND MOST RECENTLY, THE LAST CHANGE WAS IN 2019, WHEN THE COUNCIL OF THE DAY AGAIN SET MILL RATES THAT OFFSET THE IMPACTS OF THE PREVIOUS YEAR'S GENERAL ASSESSMENT, BUT RESULTED IN A MATHEMATICAL CALCULATION OF 2.26.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS RATIO IN THE CONTEXT OF PROPERTY TAX CONTRIBUTIONS, WE SEE THAT OVER THE LAST TWO DECADES THE PROPORTION OF TAXES CONTRIBUTED BY THE TWO GROUPS HAS BEEN PRETTY STABLE.

THAT STABILITY IS BECAUSE THE COUNCILS OF THE DAY CHOSE TO MAINTAIN THAT BY SETTING MILL RATES THAT KEPT IT CONSISTENT.

NOW, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF DIFFERENT DISCUSSIONS AROUND THIS PHILOSOPHY AND A LOT OF DIFFERENT CONSIDERATIONS JUST IN RECENT YEARS.

IF WE LOOK BACK TO MAY OF 2015 IN RESPONSE TO A REQUEST FROM THE COUNCIL OF THE DAY, ADMINISTRATION MADE A PRESENTATION TO COMMITTEE OUTLINING THE IMPLICATIONS OF EQUALIZING THE TAX RESPONSIBILITY.

SO THAT WOULD HAVE BROUGHT THE RATIO TO ONE.

AT THAT TIME, IT WOULD HAVE REQUIRED SHIFTING OVER $1,000,000 DOLLARS IN TAXATION RESPONSIBILITY FROM COMMERCIAL OWNERS TO RESIDENTIAL OWNERS, THUS CREATING A MEDIAN COMMERCIAL REDUCTION OF ABOUT $400 DOLLARS, BALANCED BY A MEDIAN INCREASE OF $150 DOLLARS ON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES.

THE COUNCIL OF THE DAY DID NOT SUPPORT THIS AND ULTIMATELY ADOPTED MILL RATES THAT ENDED UP MAINTAINING THE MILL RATE RATIO.

THE FOLLOWING YEAR, THE ANNUAL MILL RATE MEMO TO COMMITTEE INCLUDED AN ANALYSIS OF THE TAX RESPONSIBILITY DISTRIBUTION IN 20 COMPARABLE CITIES AND AN OPTION ONCE AGAIN TO EQUALIZE THE TAX RESPONSIBILITY.

THAT YEAR, IT WOULD HAVE MEANT SHIFTING JUST UNDER $1,000,000 DOLLARS FROM COMMERCIAL TO RESIDENTIAL, BUT RESULTED IN ESSENTIALLY THE SAME REDUCTIONS AND INCREASES.

COUNCIL UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED THE BY-LAW TO IMPLEMENT MILL RATES THAT MAINTAIN THE EXISTING MILL RATE RATIO.

IN 2017 THE MILL RATE MEMO CITED THE PREVIOUS YEAR'S RESEARCH AND CONFIRMED THAT THE CITY'S MILL RATES AND RATIOS WERE COMPARABLE TO OTHER MUNICIPALITIES. AT THE TIME COMMITTEE NOTED THAT THE RATIO THAT MATHEMATICAL AFTER THE FACT CALCULATION DID SEEM TO BE INCREASING, BUT ALSO NOTED THAT THE PROPORTION OF TAXES CONTRIBUTED BY EACH GROUP WAS BEING MAINTAINED.

AND SO THEY ULTIMATELY PASSED BY-LAWS THAT ADOPTED AND RECOMMENDED MILL RATES MAINTAIN THE MILL RATE RATIO.

2018. THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

THERE HAD BEEN CONSIDERABLE ASSESSMENT GROWTH DUE TO THE NEW HOSPITAL, SO THE RECOMMENDED MILL RATES THAT CAME FORWARD THAT SPRING ACTUALLY RESULTED IN A TAX INCREASE THAT WAS LOWER THAN WHAT THE BUDGET HAD SUGGESTED.

AND SO THOSE MILL RATES WERE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED.

THEY MAINTAINED THE EXISTING MILL RATE RATIO.

THINGS REALLY RAMPED UP IN 2019.

PRIOR TO THE MILL RATES COMING FORWARD ADMIN PRESENTED TO COMMITTEE ON BASICALLY THE IMPACTS OF THE 2018 GENERAL ASSESSMENT. GIVEN THE MASSIVE UPHEAVAL THAT HAD OCCURRED AFTER THE 2013 GENERAL ASSESSMENT, WE WERE REALLY ANXIOUS TO COME OUT AHEAD AND MAKE SURE THAT ANY

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THAT PRESENTATION ALSO INCLUDED SOME UPDATED COMPARATIVE INFORMATION, AND IT DEMONSTRATED HOW THE CITY'S RATES WERE COMPARABLE WITH OTHER MUNICIPALITIES. AT THAT MEETING, ADMINISTRATION OR COUNCIL ASKED ADMINISTRATION TO COME BACK WITH HISTORICAL DATA. SO THAT WAS PROVIDED THE FOLLOWING WEEK, 20 YEARS OF DETAILED TAXATION AND ASSESSMENT DATA WITH SOME MILL RATE SCENARIOS AS WELL.

THE MILL RATE SCENARIOS THAT COUNCIL HAD ASKED FOR COMPARISONS WERE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WITH THE RECOMMENDED RATES THAT RESULTED IN A 2.26 RATIO.

THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS WERE MADE TO ACCOUNT FOR THE ASSESSMENT BASED CHANGES RESULTING FROM THE PRIOR YEAR'S GENERAL.

THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE THE INFORMATION EXCUSE ME, THE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE INFORMATION ALSO SHOWED COUNCIL WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF MILL RATES WERE SET TO MAINTAIN A 2.13 RATIO OR WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE MORE EXTREME CASE OF GOING TO A 1.1 RATIO, A 1 TO 1 RATIO . AFTER ALL OF THAT COUNCIL ULTIMATELY DIRECTED ADMINISTRATION TO SET MILL RATES TO COME UP WITH THAT RECOMMENDED 2.26 RATIO.

AND THAT WAS WHAT WAS PASSED IN THE MILL RATE MEMO THE FOLLOWING MONTH.

WHEN THE 2020 MILL MEMO CAME FORWARD, IT REFLECTED MILL RATES THAT MAINTAIN THE 2.26 RATIO BECAUSE THERE HAD NOT BEEN ANY SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN THE UNDERLYING ASSESSMENT BASE.

COMMITTEE REQUESTED AN ANALYSIS OF GOING BACK TO THE 2.13 RATIO, AND THIS WAS INCLUDED IN A REVISED MEMORANDUM THAT WENT FORWARD THE FOLLOWING WEEK.

IT SHOWED THAT GOING TO THE 2.3 RATIO WOULD RESULT IN AN EVEN LARGER INCREASE IN THE RESIDENTIAL PORTION AND OF COURSE, A DECREASE IN THE NON-RESIDENTIAL PORTION OF TAX RESPONSIBILITY.

THE COUNCIL ULTIMATELY PASSED MILL RATE BY-LAWS THAT SET THE RATES TO ESTABLISH THE RECOMMENDED 2.26 RATIO.

LAST YEAR PRIOR TO BRINGING FORWARD MILL RATE BY-LAWS, COUNCIL ADMINISTRATION AGAIN MADE A PRESENTATION TO COMMITTEE THAT PROVIDED BACKGROUND INFORMATION ABOUT REVENUE REQUIREMENTS, PROPERTY CLASSES AND MILL RATES AND LOOKED AT HISTORICAL MILL RATES THROUGH BOTH THE ASSESSMENT AND THE MILL RATE RATIO LENSES.

IT ALSO DETAILED FOUR SCENARIOS TO FACILITATE DISCUSSION.

THE FIRST SCENARIO WAS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF MILL RATES WERE DEVELOPED TO RESULT IN A 2.26 RATIO? WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY WERE SET AT 2.13, 1.83 AND EQUALITY? AS YOU CAN SEE, AS THAT MILL RATE RATIO DECREASES, THE PERCENTAGE OF TAXES CONTRIBUTED BY NONRESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS DECREASES.

AND OF COURSE, TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE, THE PERCENTAGE CONTRIBUTED BY RESIDENTIAL OWNERS INCREASED.

COMMITTEE ULTIMATELY RECOMMENDED OR DIRECTED ADMINISTRATION TO BRING FORWARD MILL RATES THAT MAINTAINED THE RECOMMENDED 2.26.

FAST FORWARD TO THIS YEAR.

LATE LAST YEAR, COUNCIL DIRECTED ADMINISTRATION TO OBTAIN STAKEHOLDER INPUT AND FEEDBACK ON THE DISTRIBUTION OF PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY.

AND TO DO SO PRIOR TO BRINGING THE MILL RATES FORWARD.

THEREFORE, WE HAD A BIT OF AN EXTRA STEP IN THIS YEAR'S PROCESS.

THE STAKEHOLDER CONSULTATION KICKED OFF IN EARLY MARCH.

THERE WAS A LOT OF INFORMATION ADDED TO THE WEBSITE, INFORMATION THAT WAS UPDATED.

THERE WAS AN OPEN HOUSE ON MARCH 29TH AND FOR A PERIOD OF SEVERAL WEEKS.

INTERESTED STAKEHOLDERS WERE INVITED TO PROVIDE WRITTEN COMMENTS.

ALL OF THESE EFFORTS WERE ADVERTISED THROUGH NORMAL COMMUNICATION CHANNELS, AND WE SENT SPECIFIC INVITATIONS TO THE YELLOWKNIFE AND NWT CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE, THE NWT CONSTRUCTION ASSOCIATION, AND THE LOCAL REALTOR OFFICES.

TWO REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE YK CHAMBER AND TWO MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC ATTENDED THE OPEN HOUSE AND THE YELLOWKNIFE CHAMBER SUBSEQUENTLY PROVIDED THEIR COMMENTS IN WRITING, AND ONE EMAIL WAS RECEIVED FROM A RESIDENT.

THIS INPUT HAS BEEN INCLUDED IN TODAY'S MEMORANDUM TO COMMITTEE TO HELP INFORM YOUR DISCUSSIONS AND YOUR DIRECTIONS TO ADMINISTRATION REGARDING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE 2022 MILL RATES.

THE NEXT STEP WILL BE FOR ADMINISTRATION TO TAKE THAT DIRECTION UNDER ADVISEMENT, DEVELOP THE MILL RATE RECOMMENDATIONS AND BRING THEM FORWARD IN ANOTHER MEMO AND

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ULTIMATELY YOU WILL HAVE TO PASS MILL RATE BY-LAWS EARLY IN MAY IN ORDER TO MEET ALL OF PATA'S REQUIREMENTS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE GET THOSE TAX BILLS OUT.

SO THAT'S BASICALLY A BIT OF A SNAPSHOT OF WHAT HAS BEEN DECIDED BY PRIOR COUNCILS.

THERE ARE OTHER CONSIDERATIONS, THOUGH.

COMPARABLES. WHAT'S GOING ON IN OTHER PLACES.

WHAT ARE COUNCIL'S PRIORITIES? DOES COUNCIL WANT TO MAINTAIN CONSISTENCY AND PREDICTABILITY? AND THEN THE PROPERTY CLASS SUGGESTION THAT WAS BROUGHT FORWARD A FEW MINUTES AGO.

NOW IN TERMS OF OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, IT HAS BEEN MENTIONED THAT COMPARATIVES ARE VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE EVERYONE OPERATES UNDER A VERY DIFFERENT SET OF RULES AND THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF THINGS TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION.

HOWEVER, SOMETIMES IT IS GOOD JUST TO HAVE A LOOK AT WHAT OTHER PLACES ARE DOING.

AND FOR THE PAST 18 YEARS, THE ALTUS GROUP HAS BEEN PREPARING THE CANADIAN PROPERTY TAX RATE BENCHMARK REPORT.

AND IT COMPARES PROPERTY TAXATION IN 11 MUNICIPALITIES ACROSS CANADA, AND THAT COMPARISON INCLUDES MILL RATE RATIOS.

NOW, WHILE THESE CONSIDERATIONS OR COMPARISONS ALWAYS HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED IN CONTEXT PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO APPLICABLE LEGISLATION, SOMETIMES IT DOES PROVIDE SOME USEFUL INSIGHTS.

FOR EXAMPLE IF WE LOOK AT THE LAST FIVE YEARS SIMPLY BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT FITS ON THE SLIDE, WE SEE THAT YELLOWKNIFE'S MILL RATE RATIO IS SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER THAN THOSE IN THE 11 CITIES THAT ARE SURVEYED.

AND IN FACT, AS THE AUTHORS POINT OUT AS A REFERENCE POINT IN THEIR LAST OR CURRENT REPORT, THEY NOTE THAT 7 OUT OF THE 11 MUNICIPALITIES SURVEYED ACTUALLY HAVE COMMERCIAL TAX RATES THAT ARE MORE THAN TWO AND A HALF TIMES THE RESIDENTIAL RATE.

NOW, YELLOWKNIFE ISN'T A TORONTO OR A MONTREAL OR A VANCOUVER, SO WE HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.

BUT JUST FOR A LITTLE CLOSER TO HOME EXAMPLE, IF WE LOOK AT EDMONTON AND CALGARY, TWO JURISDICTIONS UNDER THE SAME LEGISLATION, WE SEE THAT THEIR MILL RATES RATIOS ARE CONSIDERABLY DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER AS WELL.

AND THAT IN PART REFLECTS THE PRIORITIES OF THE RESPECTIVE COUNCILS.

AND COUNCIL PRIORITIES ARE A VERY IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION WHEN IT COMES TO MILL RATES.

THEY'RE OFTEN REALLY POLITICAL AND THEREFORE THEY CAN BE QUITE CONFLICTING.

FOR EXAMPLE, COUNCILS THAT WANT TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF BUSINESS IN ORDER TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN BUSINESSES AND GROW THE CITY'S ECONOMY, MAY CHOOSE TO CREATE A SITUATION WHERE THE RESIDENTIAL SHARE OF TAXES GOES UP SO THAT THE NON RESIDENTIAL SHARE CAN GO DOWN.

IT CAN BE ARGUED THAT LOWER COMMERCIAL PROPERTY TAXES MAKE A CITY MORE COMPETITIVE AND PROMOTE JOB GROWTH AND INVESTMENT.

ON THE OTHER HAND, COUNCILS THAT WANT TO BE PERCEIVED AS DOING WHAT THEY CAN TO COMBAT THE HIGH COST OF LIVING MIGHT CHOOSE TO CREATE A SITUATION WHERE RESIDENTIAL SHARE OF PROPERTY TAXES GOES DOWN.

THE INCREASE, OF COURSE, BEING BORN BY THE NONRESIDENTIAL OWNERS.

THIS IS OFTEN DONE IN ORDER TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN RESIDENTS TO PROVIDE THE PEOPLE IN THAT JOB MARKET.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT BECOMES EVEN MORE ATTRACTIVE WHEN ONE CONSIDERS THAT RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS DO CONTRIBUTE OR REPRESENT A LARGER NUMBER OF VOTERS THAN THE NON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS.

THERE'S ALSO THE CONSIDERATION OF CONSISTENCY OR PREDICTABILITY.

AND THIS HAS BEEN THE IMPLICIT POLICY THAT COUNCILS OF THE PAST FEW YEARS HAVE FOLLOWED.

THEY HAVE CONSISTENTLY PASSED MILL RATES THAT MAINTAIN THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND NONRESIDENTIAL GROUPS.

NOW IF WE LOOK AT CONSISTENCY IN THE CURRENT CONTEXT, WHEN COUNCIL PASSED BUDGET 2022 LAST DECEMBER, THERE WAS A LOT OF ATTENTION PAID TO THE FACT THAT PROPERTY TAXES WERE GOING UP ABOUT FIVE AND A HALF PERCENT.

LIKE IT OR NOT, MOST RESIDENTS ARE PROBABLY EXPECTING THAT SINCE THERE HAVEN'T BEEN ANY MAJOR SHIFTS IN THE ASSESSMENT BASE.

IF WE MAINTAIN THE MILL RATES OR SET MILL RATES TO MAINTAIN THE CURRENT RATE RATIO ON AVERAGE, THERE WILL BE AN INCREASE OF ABOUT FIVE AND A HALF PERCENT IN TAX BILLS, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL.

IF MILL RATES ARE ADJUSTED AND RESULT IN A SIGNIFICANT SHIFT IN THE PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY, THAT WILL ERODE THE PREDICTABILITY HERE.

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SO LET'S JUST USE THIS AS AN EXAMPLE.

ON THE SURFACE, IT SOUNDS QUITE EASY.

INTRODUCE A NEW PROPERTY CLASS, ASSIGN IT TO THE RELEVANT PROPERTIES.

SET THE MILL RATES.

AWAY WE GO. BUT IN REALITY, THERE ARE A FEW MORE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE CONSIDERED.

FIRST OFF, WHAT REALLY IS THE END GOAL? LOWER PROPERTY TAXES FOR SMALL BUSINESSES? BUT BY HOW MUCH? AND IF SOME PROPERTY OWNERS SEE A REDUCTION, WHO IS GOING TO SEE AN INCREASE TO MAKE UP THAT REVENUE SHORTFALL? AND THEN WHAT DEFINES A SMALL BUSINESS? IF YOU LOOK AT OTHER EXAMPLES, SOMETIMES IT'S EMPLOYEES, FULL TIME EMPLOYEES, PART TIME EMPLOYEES, NET INCOME, GROSS INCOME, BUILDING SIZE. WELL, THE ONLY PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT THE CITY HAS ACCESS TO IS BUILDING SIZE.

ASSUMING THAT WE CAN DEFINE AN END GOAL AND CRITERIA THAT ARE AGREEABLE, THEN WE HAVE TO UPDATE THE TAX ADMINISTRATION BY-LAW THE MOST CLEAR CUT AND SIMPLEST STEP OF ALL. ONCE THAT NEW CLASS IS IN PLACE, THE ASSESSOR THEN HAS TO ASSIGN IT AND LEGISLATION REQUIRES IT BE THE ASSESSOR.

IT CAN'T BE DONE BY IN-HOUSE STAFF.

AND THE ASSIGNMENT OF A CLASS ISN'T JUST A ONCE AND DONE.

IT HAS TO BE REVIEWED AND UPDATED, MAKING SURE THAT ONLY QUALIFIED BUSINESSES, SMALL BUSINESSES THAT MEET THEIR CRITERIA CONTINUE TO BE ASSIGNED THAT CLASS.

MILL RATE CALCULATION DONE EVERY YEAR.

WE'D HAVE TO MAKE SURE IT'S DONE, OF COURSE, TO MEET THE END GOAL.

AND IN THE END, WHO WILL BENEFIT? RIGHT NOW, OUR RECORDS INDICATE THAT ABOUT 18.5% OF BUSINESS OWNERS, ALL BUSINESS OWNERS IN YELLOWKNIFE, OWN THEIR OWN PROPERTY.

SO THE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS WITHIN THAT 18.5% COULD EXPECT TO BENEFIT DIRECTLY FROM AN INITIATIVE LIKE THIS.

BUT WOULD THE TENANTS OF LARGER BUILDINGS HAVE THE BENEFIT PASSED ON TO THEM BY THEIR LANDLORD? PROBABLY NOT.

BUILDINGS ARE ALWAYS ASSIGNED A CLASS BASED ON THE PREDOMINANT USE.

SO IF WE LOOK AT AN EXAMPLE LIKE THE SCOTIA CENTER, A BIG OFFICE BUILDING THAT WOULD REMAIN THE TAXATION PROPERTY CLASS, EVEN THOUGH WE MIGHT HAVE INDIVIDUAL LITTLE TENANTS IN IT. SO JUST SOME THINGS TO THINK ABOUT AS WE GO FORWARD LOOKING AT THAT CONSIDERATION.

THERE AREN'T ANY RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWERS WHEN IT COMES TO THESE CONSIDERATIONS.

THEY ARE PHILOSOPHICAL OR POLITICAL CHOICES THAT JUST HAVE TO BE MADE.

SO TO RECAP.

FROM A MATHEMATICAL PERSPECTIVE, AS LONG AS THE MILL RATES RAISE THE REQUIRED AMOUNT OF REVENUE THEY'VE DONE THEIR JOB.

HOW THAT RESPONSIBILITY GETS DISTRIBUTED FROM A POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE? SHOULD THE MILL RATES DISTRIBUTE IT ACCORDING TO THE CURRENT DISTRIBUTION? SHOULD THAT DISTRIBUTION BE FLIPPED? SHOULD IT BE SET DOWN THE MIDDLE OR SET OUT IN SOME OTHER WAY? AGAIN, JUST AS LONG AS IT RAISES THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE DISTRIBUTION IS OKAY.

THE MATHEMATICS ALL WORK.

WHAT'S MORE DIFFICULT IS THAT PHILOSOPHICAL CONSIDERATION.

QUESTIONS. COMMENTS.

THANK YOU. COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

AND THANK YOU, SHAROLYNN. AND ONE OF YOUR BEST PERFORMANCES IN THIS COUNCIL, I GOT TO SAY.

[LAUGHTER] YOU MUST HAVE.

YES. PRACTICED OVER THE TIME WHEN WE WERE AT HOME.

I JUST I WAS CURIOUS IF YOU COULD BRING UP THAT SLIDE.

AND IT WAS EARLY ON IN THE PRESENTATION WHERE YOU HAD ALL OF THE DIFFERENT CLASSIFICATIONS, LIKE ALL THE DIFFERENT PROPERTY CLASSES.

AND THEN I WAS JUST SORT OF CURIOUS BECAUSE YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO GO WAY, WAY BACK.

THIS BECAUSE THIS ONE KIND OF TOOK ME A LITTLE BIT BY SURPRISE BECAUSE I GUESS THERE WAS SOME INDICATION DURING THAT PRESENTATION THAT THERE WAS THAT THIS IS A REDUCED LIST FROM A PREVIOUS 20 THAT WAS THERE BEFORE.

I JUST KIND OF A LITTLE BIT CURIOUS TO MAYBE SPEAK TO SOME OF WHAT WAS REMOVED OFF THE LIST.

I WANTED TO SEE THAT LIST FIRST, JUST TO GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THAT DISCUSSION WENT.

AND, YOU KNOW, SO.

YES. SO AGAIN, WHAT GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF POSSIBLY SOMETHING THAT WAS REMOVED FROM THAT LIST AT THAT TIME? MS. BASSI-KELLETT.

MS. WOODWARD. THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.

THOSE CHANGES WERE MADE OVER 20 YEARS AGO, BACK IN 1999.

[00:55:03]

I DO KNOW THAT THEY TRIED TO SIMPLIFY IT IN LARGE PART BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MUCH REALLY CONFUSION.

IT RELIED ON INTERPRETATION OF WHETHER YOU WERE IN THIS SIZE OF RESIDENTIAL OR THAT SIZE.

AND IT JUST WAS AN ATTEMPT TO STANDARDIZE IT, MAKE IT SOMETHING THAT WAS EASIER TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ON AND EASIER TO ADMINISTER.

OKAY. SO BECAUSE I KNOW WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, THIS IS PROBABLY OUR FOURTH TIME SINCE WE'VE BEEN A COUNCIL.

AND, YOU KNOW, THIS DOES COME UP.

AND I KNOW FROM PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS THERE WAS SORT OF AN INABILITY TO CREATE OR MAYBE IT WAS JUST MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE DISCUSSION AT THE TIME.

BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH PATA THAT WOULD HINDER US FROM MAKING FURTHER CLASSES.

BUT IT SORT OF SEEMS THIS YEAR THAT THAT'S SORT OF OPENED UP A LITTLE BIT.

HAS ANYTHING CHANGED AND ARE WE ABLE JUST TO DETERMINE NEW CLASSES UNDER PATA? YEAH. I THINK SOMETIMES PEOPLE WANTED TO DO A DERELICT CLASS, WHICH I DON'T KNOW IF WE'D BE LEGISLATIVELY ABLE TO DO, VERSUS LIKE THE VACANT PROPERTY, WHICH THEN GETS NOT ONLY THE VACANT PROPERTIES DOWNTOWN, BUT IF YOU'VE GOT A VACANT PROPERTY JUST OFF A RIVETT OR THE VACANT PROPERTY THAT I THINK IS AN OLD TOWN THEY ALL GET THEN IN CLASSIFIED AS A VACANT PROPERTY, YOU CAN'T GEOGRAPHICALLY PICK AND CHOOSE WHERE YOU WANT TO HAVE YOUR PROPERTY CLASSIFICATIONS, BUT.

MS. BASSI-KELLETT. YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT A BIT BETTER.

MS. WOODWARD. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPOUND ON THAT.

I THINK THE MAYOR STATED IT QUITE CLEARLY.

IN THE PAST AS I RECALL, THE DISCUSSIONS HAVE BEEN MORE AROUND HOW DO WE UP THE TAXES TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT ON A PROPERTY? AND BECAUSE WE CAN'T DO IT ON A GEOGRAPHIC BASIS, IT REALLY MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST TOOL FOR THAT GOAL.

IN THIS CONTEXT, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A PROPERTY CLASS.

PERHAPS FOR A SMALL BUSINESS WOULDN'T MATTER WHERE IN THE CITY THAT SMALL BUSINESS WAS RESIDING.

PATA DOES ALLOW US TO CREATE A NEW CLASS, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF HURDLES THAT WE HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH.

WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT CLASS IN PLACE, I BELIEVE, BY OCTOBER FOR THE FOLLOWING CLASS OR FOLLOWING TAX YEAR.

BUT AS LONG AS WE FOLLOW THEIR RULES, WE CAN DO IT.

WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S THE BEST TOOL FOR THE GOAL THAT'S UNDER CONSIDERATION.

WELL, THAT'S GREAT NEWS TO HEAR, BECAUSE I THINK THAT THERE IS AND CERTAINLY IS PARTNERS LIKE THE CHAMBER, WHETHER IT BE YELLOWKNIFE OR NWT, THAT WOULD WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN SOME OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS, TOO. YOU KNOW, DEFINITELY.

CERTAINLY LOOKING AT THIS, YOU KNOW, TO ANSWER SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS POLITICALLY, LIKE I THINK WE ARE A GOVERNMENT TOWN, THAT'S WHERE OUR GROWTH IS LIKELY GOING TO BE IN THE FUTURE, WHETHER IT'S RESIDENTS.

BUT. BEING DOMINATED BY GOVERNMENT.

THAT'S SORT OF SEEING WHERE WE'RE SEEING OF OUR NEW BUILDS OR OUR NEW BIG BUILDS.

SO I THINK THAT THAT'S A CLASSIFICATION.

I THINK IF WE EVER WERE TO GET TO ONE OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS AND THEN AGAIN, MULTI STORY IS ANOTHER GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THAT.

SO I GUESS MY NEXT QUESTION TO ADMINISTRATION IS HOW WOULD WE START THE PROCESS OF ENGAGING THE PUBLIC AND COUNCIL? AND OF COURSE, THIS ISN'T PART OF OUR WORK PLAN FOR THIS YEAR.

SO HOW WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE IF COUNCIL WAS TO GIVE DIRECTION AND WHAT FORM WOULD ADMINISTRATION LIKE TO SEE THAT DIRECTION KIND OF TAKE SHAPE TO MAYBE HAVE THIS DISCUSSION? I THINK SHAROLYNN INDICATED THAT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE BEFORE OCTOBER.

AND IS THAT EVEN ENOUGH TIME? AND IS THAT EVEN IN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY FOR THIS YEAR? MS. BASSI-KELLETT THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE QUESTION.

I'LL JUST SAY SOMETHING QUICKLY BEFORE I HAND IT OVER TO MS. WOODWARD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS, FOR RECOGNIZING THAT THERE'S A HUGE AMOUNT OF WORK FOR US TO BE DOING IN 2022 AS WE LEAD UP TO THE FALL.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT LOOKING AT THE EXISTING PARAMETERS IN THE FRAMEWORK THAT'S PROVIDED BY PATA, WE REMAIN VERY, VERY HOPEFUL THAT THERE WILL COMPLETE HOUSEKEEPING CHANGES BEFORE THE END OF THIS ASSEMBLY AND FOR A MORE SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE GOING FORWARD THAT SOME OF THOSE LITTLE CHANGES SHOULD HELP US, BUT THE BIGGER CHANGES ARE TO COME.

SO THAT'S REALLY THE CONTEXT SETTING PIECE FOR US THAT MAKES SOME CHALLENGES IN HOW WE GO FORWARD.

I WILL ASK MS. WOODWARD IF SHE'D LIKE TO EXPAND THAT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YES.

AS MS. BASSI-KELLETT SAID, RIGHT NOW, OUR MOST LIMITING FACTOR IN MANY RESPECTS IS PATA.

IT'S OUTDATED AND IT DOESN'T DO A LOT OF WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT ENABLE US TO DO.

IN TERMS OF A TIMELINE, WE COULD CERTAINLY UNDERTAKE CONSULTATION.

IT WOULD HAVE TO BE ADDED TO THIS YEAR'S WORKPLAN.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT OCTOBER 2022 WOULD BE REALISTIC TO DO A NEW PROPERTY CLASS BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF RESEARCH THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED. IF WE LOOK TO PLACES LIKE HALIFAX THAT JUST RECENTLY WENT THROUGH IT, IT WAS SEVERAL YEARS OF RESEARCH DETERMINING HOW BEST TO ACHIEVE THE GOAL.

[01:00:09]

AND EVEN THAT TOOK THEM SEVERAL YEARS TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY HOW TO BEST DO THIS.

THE OTHER FACTOR THAT COMPLICATES THIS IS NEXT YEAR, 2023 IS A GENERAL ASSESSMENT.

SO OUR ASSESSOR GOES FULL OUT TO LOOK AT EVERY SINGLE PROPERTY IN THAT TIMELINE.

THERE MAY ALSO WANT TO BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT INTRODUCING A GENERAL ASSESSMENT RESULT ON TOP OF NEW PROPERTY CLASSES.

IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.

HOW MANY VARIABLES DOES COUNCIL WANT TO JUGGLE AT ONE TIME? SO THOSE ARE SOME CONSIDERATIONS THAT WOULD GO INTO IT.

WHAT POSSIBLY, I GUESS FOR COUNCIL, THEN MAYBE IT'S A MORE PRUDENT TO START THE PROCESS, GET IT ON THE WORK PLAN FOR MAYBE A FUTURE COUNCIL TO CONSIDER.

BUT ANYWAY, I'LL LEAVE MY COMMENTS.

LET ME JUST TAKE LAND COVERAGE NO.

YEAH, GREAT.

ACTUALLY, LAST QUESTION. JUST TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT THE CHAMBER HAD BROUGHT UP, WHICH IS THE TIMING OF THAT MILL RATE DISCUSSION.

AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THE GENERAL ASSESSMENT OR THE ASSESSMENT THAT HAPPENS IN JANUARY WON'T HAVE HAPPENED.

BUT IS THERE ANY RELUCTANCE FROM ADMINISTRATION TO AT LEAST HAVE A POLICY DISCUSSION WHEN IT COMES TO MILL RATES AT TIME OF BUDGET VERSUS NOW WHEN WE NORMALLY HAVE IT? MS. BASSI-KELLETT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M HOPEFUL THAT A POLICY DISCUSSION WOULD BE FAIRLY CONSISTENT OVER TIME, BUT IN TERMS OF THE DISCUSSION, AS WAS THE OPTION THAT WAS PROVIDED BY THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, I'LL ASK MS. WOODWARD TO EXPAND ON OUR RATIONALE AROUND THAT.

THANK YOU. OF COURSE, ADMINISTRATION IS ALWAYS WILLING TO SUPPORT A DISCUSSION FROM COUNCIL AT ANY POINT.

THE ONE THING I WOULD CAUTION ABOUT HAVING SOMETHING TOO DEFINITIVE IN DECEMBER IS THAT THERE'S STILL A LOT THAT'S UNKNOWN ABOUT OUR FINAL ASSESSED VALUES, EVEN THOUGH WE TRY AND KEEP UP WITH EVERYTHING ALL THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

ONCE WE HEAR THE BOARD OF REVISION AND PERHAPS THE NEXT LEVEL, IF THAT EVER GETS TO MEET AGAIN, THERE CAN BE SOME UNDERLYING CHANGES IN OUR ASSESSMENT BASE THAT COULD MAYBE COUNTERBALANCE OR NEGATE OR SOMEHOW CHANGE ANY DISCUSSIONS THAT WERE HELD IN DECEMBER.

RIGHT.

BUT IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT COULD BE ADDED TO THE AGENDA.

YEAH. COUNCIL STAMINA ALLOWING IN DECEMBER.

YEAH, I GUESS SO.

IT IS A CHALLENGING TIME BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WE'RE ALWAYS RUNNING FOR THE DOORS BECAUSE IT'S USUALLY, YOU KNOW, SECOND WEEK OF DECEMBER OR FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER.

YEAH. OKAY, GREAT.

WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR THE QUESTIONS THAT EVERYBODY ELSE HAS.

THANKS. THANK YOU.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE PRESENTER OR? COUNCILLOR MORGAN? THANKS, MADAM CHAIR, AND THANKS FOR THIS PRESENTATION AGAIN.

SHAROLYNN, I KNOW YOU'VE MADE A LOT OF THESE EVEN IN YOUR TIME AND AND IT'S OFTEN DIFFICULT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND.

SO WE GO OVER THE SAME STUFF OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

BUT I WONDER IF YOU COULD GO BACK TO THE SLIDE WITH THE GRAPH OF THE LINES THAT KIND OF CROSS EACH OTHER THAT IT SHOWS THE PROPORTION OF OUR ASSESSED PROPERTIES MADE UP OF RESIDENTIAL VERSUS NON.

THAT ONE. YEAH. OKAY.

OKAY. AND SO YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE'S A FAIR AMOUNT OF STABILITY OR THERE'S NOT A SIGNIFICANT SHIFT IN THE ASSESSMENT BASE.

SO THE NONRESIDENTIAL IT DOES LOOK, THOUGH, THAT I MEAN, WHAT'S BEEN POINTED OUT BY THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND WE'VE SEEN OVER THE YEARS IS A RELATIVELY STEADY DECLINE OF THE PERCENTAGE OF OUR ASSESSMENT THAT IS NONRESIDENTIAL.

IS THAT FAIR TO SAY, OR WOULD YOU SEE THAT AS NOT A VERY SIGNIFICANT SHIFT? MS. BASSI-KELLETT. THE PROPORTION HAS CHANGED.

I'LL ASK MS. WOODWARD TO RESPOND.

YEAH. THANK YOU.

WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT HERE IS THE PROPORTION OF TAXES AND ASSESSMENT FOR EACH OF THE TWO BROAD GROUPS.

SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE NON-RESIDENTIAL ASSESSMENT PERCENTAGE, THAT'S THE BLUE LINE.

AND YES, IT HAS HAD ITS UPS AND DOWNS OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS, BUT IT IS A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN WHAT IT STARTED OUT IN 2000.

CONVERSELY, THE PROPORTION OF RESIDENTIAL ASSESSMENT HAS GONE UP.

IF I COULD, I THINK THE SLIDE THAT WAS BEING REFERRED TO MIGHT HAVE BEEN THIS ONE.

[01:05:05]

RIGHT. AND SO THIS IS WHERE, I'M A BIT CONFUSED.

WHAT IS THE PHILOSOPHY BEHIND WHY THAT GRAPH YOU JUST SHOWED WITH THE BARS, WHY IS IT CONSIDERED IMPORTANT TO KEEP THE RELATIVE PROPORTIONS OF TAXES CONTRIBUTED RELATIVELY STEADY OVER TIME.

I WOULDN'T SAY EQUAL BECAUSE IT'S STILL LIKE THE NON-RESIDENTIAL IS UP CLOSER TO 60%.

IT'S NOT EVEN 50 50, BUT.

BUT WHAT IS THE IMPORTANCE BEHIND KEEPING THAT PROPORTION STEADY OVER TIME WHEN WE HAVE LIKE A SMALLER NUMBER OF OR A SMALLER AMOUNT OF NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES IN PROPORTION.

SO WHAT IS, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT A PHILOSOPHY WOULD BE OR THE PHILOSOPHY BEHIND KEEPING THIS PROPORTION STEADY WHEN THE AMOUNT OF PROPERTIES WITHIN EACH OR THE VALUE OF PROPERTIES WITHIN EACH GROUP IS SHIFTING.

FOR SURE. MS. BASSI-KELLETT. MS. WOODWARD.

THANK YOU. THAT EFFECT IS A RESULT OF COUNCIL'S DIRECTION REGARDING MILL RATES.

BUT IT'S THEIR PHILOSOPHY? I GUESS THE PHILOSOPHY IS THAT X DOLLARS IS PROVIDED FROM RESIDENTS TO PAY FOR SERVICES AND X DOLLARS IS PROVIDED BY BUSINESSES.

SO 50, 50% DOLLAR AMOUNT FROM EACH CATEGORY RESIDENTS VERSUS COMMERCIAL.

WOULD THAT BE ACCURATE MS. BASSI-KELLETT? AND I THINK PREDICTABILITY FACTORS INTO HERE AS WELL.

AND THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE DIRECTION THAT WE'VE RECEIVED FROM COUNCIL WHILE I'VE BEEN SITTING HERE.

THE 60 40 SPLIT HAS BEEN HISTORICAL SINCE 2000.

THERE IS SOMETHING PREDICTABLE AND STABLE IN THAT 60 40 SPLIT.

BUT I MEAN, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CONSISTENCY AND PREDICTABILITY.

DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THERE IS CONSISTENCY AND PREDICTABILITY FOR THE BUSINESSES OR THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR IF IT'S A SHRINKING PROPORTION OF THE VALUE OF OUR ASSESSMENT AND IN ORDER TO KEEP THE PROPORTION STEADY THERE.

I MEAN, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY IT'S PREDICTABLY INCREASING FOR THEM IS LIKE, IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN? I'M NOT SURE HOW THIS PANS OUT IN TERMS OF PREDICTABILITY FOR BUSINESSES.

MS. BASSI-KELLETT.

THANK YOU. AND I I'LL TURN THIS TO MS..

WOODWARD. BUT IN MANY WAYS, THIS IS REFLECTING THE PREDICTABILITY OF THE RATIO AND THE PROPORTION.

AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL HAS BEEN COMFORTABLE WITH OVER TIME.

MS. WOODWARD. THANK YOU.

YES. I'M NOT TOO SURE HOW TO EXPOUND ON THAT BECAUSE OF COURSE, IT'S NOT OUR POSITION TO SAY WHAT COUNCIL MIGHT HAVE BEEN THINKING, BUT THE HISTORY OF PRESERVING THE EXISTING MILL RATE RATIO, UNLESS THERE'S BEEN A MAJOR SHIFT IN THE UNDERLYING ASSESSMENT BASE, WOULD CERTAINLY INDICATE THAT THERE IS A WILLINGNESS TO MAINTAIN THAT 60 40 SPLIT.

AND IF YOU SAY IN DECEMBER THAT PROPERTY TAXES ARE GOING UP X PERCENT, THE MAJORITY OF PROPERTY OWNERS WILL SEE A BILL IN JUNE WITH THAT PERCENTAGE.

OK.

LIKE DEFINITELY.

I MEAN, I'M NOT INNOCENT IN ALL OF THIS.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS SOMEHOW ADMINISTRATION'S FAULT BY ANY MEANS, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN PART OF THESE DISCUSSIONS EVERY YEAR, AND I KNOW WHAT OFTEN IT COMES DOWN TO IS WE LOOK AT WHAT THE PROPERTY TAX INCREASE OR SHIFT WILL SHAKE DOWN TO AT THE END OF THE DAY.

AND WE LOOK AT NUMBERS IN TERMS OF LIKE IF WE LOWERED THE RELATIVE BURDEN ON NON-RESIDENTIAL AND WENT UP FOR RESIDENTIAL, THEN WE LOOK AT THAT'S GOING TO COST YOUR AVERAGE HOMEOWNER AN EXTRA X THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR.

AND WE ALL GULP AND SAY, OH, THAT'S A SHOCK.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE REALLY ANGRY AT THAT AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WON'T BE ABLE TO HANDLE THAT KIND OF A SHOCK.

SO. WE WANT TO AVOID THOSE KIND OF SHOCKS ON RESIDENTIAL.

AND I THINK.

I KNOW FOR MYSELF I'VE THOUGHT, WELL, FOR MANY OR SOME AT LEAST OF THE COMMERCIAL OR INSTITUTIONAL, THE RELATIVE SHIFT COULD BE JUST A ROUNDING ERROR.

THEY WOULDN'T NOTICE NEARLY AS MUCH AS MOST RESIDENTS.

AND SO THEN IN YOUR HEAD YOU THINK, OKAY, WELL, THIS IS THE SAFER OPTION.

[01:10:03]

I'M SAYING THIS IS SORT OF THE EXTENT OF THE PHILOSOPHY THAT I'VE PERHAPS PUT INTO IT OVER THE YEARS.

BUT MAYBE THAT'S NOT A GOOD ENOUGH PHILOSOPHY OR JUSTIFICATION.

AND SO FOR ME, THE STRUGGLE AND WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO FOCUS ON IS HOW DO WE SEPARATE THE COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL, LIKE THOSE BUSINESSES FOR WHOM THE SHIFTS WOULD JUST BE A ROUNDING ERROR AND NOT SHIFTING THAT ROUNDING ERROR ONTO RESIDENTS FOR WHOM IT COULD BE A HUGE SHOCK AND MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE. BUT HOW DO WE FOCUS ON NOT PLACING AN INCREASING BURDEN ON THOSE BUSINESSES WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE MANY RESIDENTS STRUGGLING TO GET BY AND STRUGGLING TO BALANCE THE BOOKS AND WHO THOSE SHIFTS OF UP ARE MAKING A HUGE DIFFERENCE AND MAKING IT A STRUGGLE TO RUN A BUSINESS IN THIS TOWN.

AND I AM SYMPATHETIC FOR SURE TO THE ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN OF TRYING TO COME UP WITH A NEW PROPERTY TAX CLASS AND AN ASSESSOR GOING OUT AND TRYING TO SORT OUT HOW DIFFERENT GROUPS FIT INTO THESE CATEGORIES.

AND SO WHAT I'M WONDERING ABOUT IS, IS THERE SOME OTHER WAY TO SUPPORT SMALL BUSINESSES IN TERMS OF SOME SYSTEM OF PROPERTY TAX REBATES? OR IS THERE A SIMPLER WAY TO ACHIEVE THE END GOAL OF NOT CREATING THIS INCREASING BURDEN ON SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS WHO OWN PROPERTY THAT THESE TAX INCREASES ARE MAKING A HUGE DIFFERENCE VERSUS THE ONES THAT ARE NOT EVEN NOTICING BECAUSE IT'S A ROUNDING ERROR.

AND I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW WE CAN GET AT THAT, BUT THAT WOULD BE MY HOPE IN TERMS OF MY PHILOSOPHY OF HOW WE CAN MOVE FORWARD.

BUT MAYBE OTHERS HAVE SOME IDEAS ON WHAT'S THE IMPORTANT VALUES HERE OR THE IMPORTANT END GOALS, AND THEN HOW DO WE GET THERE? I THINK THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE IS PROPERTY TAXES IS A MEDIEVAL TOOL.

AND PATA IS BLUNT.

SO IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE SENIOR CITIZENS AND TAXATION REBATE, WE CAN EITHER GIVE A REBATE TO PEOPLE OVER 65 OR WE CAN'T OR WE DON'T.

YOU CAN BE, BUT WE CAN'T BASE IT ON YOUR INCOME SO YOU CAN BE A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE.

ONCE YOU'RE 65, YOU CAN APPLY TO GET A TAX REBATE, AND THAT MEANS THE REST OF THE POPULATION HAS TO ABSORB THAT.

SO THE SINGLE MOM WORKING TWO JOBS IS GOING TO PAY MORE IN TAXES.

SO PATA IS PRETTY SPECIFIC ABOUT REBATES, REDUCTIONS, PROPERTY CLASSES AND ASSESSED PREDOMINANT USE, ALL THAT STUFF. SO WHETHER IT'S SOMETHING IN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THAT IT'S A STRAIGHT UP FREE GRANT OF X DOLLARS.

THAT COULD BE IF COUNCIL WANTS TO TO SUPPORT WHICH IT'S KIND OF THIS LOOP TOO, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO RAISE TAXES TO THEN PROVIDE THOSE GRANTS. IT'S A FUN, FUN GAME OF THE PHILOSOPHY AND THE MATHEMATICAL EQUATION.

MS. BASSI-KELLETT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR.

YOU NAILED IT. WE HAVE TO WORK WITHIN THE PARAMETERS OF THE LEGISLATION, WHICH CAN BE A REAL CHALLENGE AT TIMES.

FOR ME, THE REAL WAKE UP CALL WAS THE 18.5% OF BUSINESSES THAT OWN THEIR OWN PROPERTY RIGHT NOW.

AND SO IF WE'RE TRYING TO IF THE PHILOSOPHY IS TO SUPPORT BUSINESSES, THAT IN PARTICULAR OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS HAVE HAD A REALLY HARD GO OF THINGS.

THAT'S OUR CHALLENGE.

THAT'S WHERE WE REALLY SEEK TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE WAY FORWARD ON THAT, WHEN WE ARE GOING TO BE BENEFITING LANDLORDS AS OPPOSED TO THOSE BUSINESSES AND HAVING A DIRECT IMPACT ON THEM.

MS. WOODWARD, I'LL ASK YOU. YOU'RE OUR EXPERT.

THANK YOU. SO MANY GOOD POINTS HAVE BEEN RAISED.

JUST TO GO BACK TO COUNCILLOR MORGAN'S PART, HOW DO WE KIND OF GIVE THE RESIDENTS A BREAK? THERE IS NO EASY ANSWER BECAUSE IF WE LOWER ANYBODY'S TAXES, SOMEONE ELSE'S HAS TO GO UP BECAUSE BOTTOM LINE, YOU NEED THE REVENUES IDENTIFIED IN THE BUDGET.

GIVEN THE RESTRICTIVE NATURE OF OUR LEGISLATION, I'M NOT SURE THAT THERE IS AN AVENUE FOR US TO GIVE A PROPERTY TAX REBATE.

AS THE MAYOR MENTIONED, THE ONLY ONE THAT WE DO IS THE SENIORS AND DISABLED, AND THAT IS AN ACT IN AND OF ITSELF.

OVER THE PANDEMIC THERE WERE QUITE A FEW SUCCESSFUL PROGRAMS LAUNCHED BY THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT GROUP THAT TARGETED SPECIFIC GROUPS, AND IT WAS A VERY CLEAR CUT, EFFECTIVE WAY TO HELP A CERTAIN CRITERIA OR A CERTAIN TYPE OF BUSINESS THAT MAY BE OUR BETTER IN TERM SOLUTION UNTIL WE GET SOME RESTRICTIONS REMOVED OR GET SOME MORE FLEXIBILITY WITHIN OUR TAXATION LEGISLATION.

MAYBE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE LOOKED AT INSTEAD OF TRYING TO FORCE AN OLD SYSTEM TO DO SOMETHING IT REALLY ISN'T DESIGNED TO DO.

[01:15:05]

YOU KNOW. SO FOR ME, IT'S THIS.

YOU KNOW, EACH YEAR WE HAVE THE ASSESSMENT BASED CHANGES BASED ON WHAT WAS DEVELOPED.

YOU KNOW, IN THE PAST FEW YEARS, WE'VE HAD SOME PRETTY BIG SAVES WITH THE HOSPITAL.

WHEN THE HOSPITAL WAS BUILT I THINK WE WOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT QUITE A SIGNIFICANT TAX INCREASE IF THAT HADN'T BEEN FINISHED WHEN IT WAS, BECAUSE THERE WAS VERY LITTLE OTHER DEVELOPMENT HAPPENING.

AND WHEN WE SEE DEVELOPMENT, WHAT IT DOES IS IT INCREASES OUR OVERALL ASSESSED VALUE IN THE CITY.

AND I THINK FOR BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, THE CHALLENGE THAT BUSINESS IS SEEING IS THAT MR. WARBURTON HAD MENTIONED EARLIER, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN, YOU KNOW HUNDREDS OF HOMES BEING BUILT IN THE CITY AND VERY FEW NEW BUSINESS OR INDUSTRIAL TYPE DEVELOPMENT HAPPENING.

AND WHEN WE KEEP THESE RATIOS THE SAME YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR, IT'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, TO THAT PROPERTY CLASS THAT ISN'T SEEING THE SAME AMOUNT OF DEVELOPMENT AS OTHER PROPERTY CLASSES, THEY ARE THEN RECEIVING A HEAVIER BURDEN IN TERMS OF TAX.

SO. YOU KNOW.

YEAH, SURE WE KEEP THE MILL RATE RATIO THE SAME AT 2.26.

BUT THE 2.26 IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S LESS PEOPLE THAT ARE THAT ARE THAT ARE PAYING THAT PORTION OF IT.

I GUESS YOU COULD SAY.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AND IT SORT OF [INAUDIBLE] HERE WHAT THE ASSESSED VALUES OF THE DIFFERENT CLASSES ARE IN MS. WOODWARD'S PRESENTATION, YOU KNOW.

BUT HOW, DOES THE ADMINISTRATION HAVE ANY IDEAS ON HOW WE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DEAL WITH THE DIFFERENT ASSESSMENT VALUES IN EACH PROPERTY CLASS TO ENSURE THAT YOU KNOW THAT IT IS.

YOU KNOW, I THINK I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT PEOPLE KEEP USING THE WORD FAIR.

BUT AS SOON AS YOU USE FAIR TO ONE GROUP, THAT MEANS IT'S NOT FAIR TO ANOTHER GROUP OR WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY MEAN? YOU KNOW, AND CONSISTENT.

CONSISTENT FOR THE HOMEOWNERS.

BUT THAT MEANS IT'S INCONSISTENT FOR THE BUSINESS OWNERS AND YEAH.

SO I GUESS THAT'S MY QUESTION ADMIN, DOES THE ADMINISTRATION HAVE ANY IDEAS ON HOW WE CAN YEAR, YOU KNOW, EVERY YEAR LOOK AT WHAT WAS DEVELOPED IN EACH PROPERTY CLASS AND TRY TO MAKE THESE MILL RATES.

YOU KNOW, MICRO ADJUSTMENTS IN THESE MILL RATES TO BE MORE CONSISTENT OVERALL IN ALL PROPERTY CLASSES.

MS. BASSI-KELLETT. I CERTAINLY WANT TO TAKE THAT UNDER ADVISEMENT.

I DON'T KNOW IF MS. WOODWARD WANTS TO SPEAK TO THAT OR ANY INITIAL REACTION.

I THINK WE'D WANT TO TAKE THAT AWAY AND THINK A LITTLE BIT ON THAT, IT SOUNDS QUITE BESPOKE IN CREATING A SORT OF A TAILOR MADE.

WE NEED TO JUST WRAP OUR HEADS AROUND THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE.

BUT THANK YOU FOR FOR RAISING THAT.

OKAY. AND THE ONLY OTHER THING THAT I WILL SAY IS, YOU KNOW, WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT BUSINESS AND BUSINESS THAT HAS LOCAL OWNERS AND THIS SORT OF THING.

AND I FIND THAT REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE I DON'T THINK ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE OF THINGS WE WOULD EVER GO AND SAY, WELL, HOW MANY HOMEOWNERS WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT? YOU KNOW, SHOULD THEY HAVE A HEAVIER TAX BURDEN THAN THOSE HOMEOWNERS THAT WORK IN PRIVATE SECTOR? AND FOR ME, THAT YOU KNOW, WE MAKE THAT COMPARISON ON THE DIFFERENT BUSINESSES.

IT IS LIKE ASKING WHICH HOMEOWNERS WORK FOR GOVERNMENT AND MAYBE WE SHOULD TAX THEM, YOU KNOW, MORE HEAVILY THAN WE SHOULD TAX OTHER HOMEOWNERS.

SO I THINK FOR ME PERSONALLY, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE SAY HOMEOWNERS, THAT'S ONE GROUP.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT A HOMEOWNER LOOKS LIKE, WHERE THEY WORK, WHATEVER, THAT'S HOMEOWNER'S.

BUSINESS THAT'S BUSINESS.

AND IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE BUSINESS IS WAL-MART OR QUALITY FURNITURE OR [INAUDIBLE] BUSINESS IS BUSINESS.

HOMEOWNERS ARE HOMEOWNERS.

YOU KNOW, I THINK TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE DIVISIVE IN EACH CLASS, I THINK IS NOT A GOOD IDEA.

[01:20:03]

I CAN WORK WITH THAT.

BUT BUSINESS IS BUSINESS, HOMEOWNERS ARE HOMEOWNERS, DOESN'T MATTER IF THE BUSINESS IS OWNED HERE, THERE TO ME.

BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, ALL THOSE BUSINESSES, REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY, YOU KNOW, HEAD OFFICE IS, THEY ARE PROVIDING IMPORTANT CONTRIBUTIONS TO OUR SOCIETY IN TERMS OF SERVICES, IN TERMS OF JOBS, IN TERMS OF LOTS OF OTHER THINGS.

IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER WHEN WE CONSIDER WHAT THEIR TAX BURDEN SHOULD BE.

SO. WHEN WE COME TO OUR MILL RATE CONVERSATION THAT WILL BE COMING UP IN, I THINK JUNE END OF MAY.

YOU KNOW, I WILL BE ASKING WHAT WE SAW IN GROWTH IN EACH DIFFERENT PROPERTY CLASS OVER THE LAST 12 MONTHS.

SO. YEAH.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

MS. BASSI-KELLETT JUST TO CLARIFY, ADMIN IS SEEKING DIRECTION TODAY FROM COUNCIL ON WHETHER TO MAINTAIN THE MUNICIPAL PROPERTY TAX, I.E.

THE THE MILL RATE OF 2.26.

IS THAT CORRECT? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

OUR MEMO ITSELF SPEAKS TO OR I'M JUST GOING BACK ON THAT IS SEEKING THAT DIRECTION TODAY FOR THE PROPORTION SO THAT THEN WE CAN COME BACK WITH THE ACTUAL MILL RATES.

THANK YOU. OK.

SO COUNCILLOR KONGE, FOR YOUR LAST POINT THERE, DID YOU NEED FURTHER INFORMATION BEFORE YOU CAN SUPPORT THE RATIO OR ARE YOU GOING TO? YEP.

NO, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT WE SAW FOR GROWTH IN EACH OF THOSE PROPERTY CLASSES OVER THE LAST OVER 2021.

I SEE MS. BASSI-KELLETT'S FURIOUSLY WRITING THAT NOTE DOWN.

I DIDN'T HEAR THAT.

HE'S LOOKING FOR SOME FURTHER NUMBERS.

SO BRING THAT FORWARD.

ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? YES. COUNCILLOR MORSE.

THANK YOU. SO THIS ONE'S NOT NECESSARILY ABOUT THE BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL.

BUT I'M JUST NOTING THAT WE HAVE TWO CLASSES OF RESIDENTIAL IN OUR MILL RATES RIGHT NOW, MULTI RESIDENTIAL AND RESIDENTIAL.

I HAD WRITTEN AN EMAIL AND ASKED ABOUT THIS A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.

I WAS KIND OF HOPING IT MIGHT COME UP IN THE CONSULTATION WE DID.

AND I'M JUST WONDERING, LIKE WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT OUR PHILOSOPHY BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL AND RESIDENTIAL.

I'M JUST WONDERING WHY IT IS THAT WE'VE DECIDED MULTI RESIDENTIAL SHOULD BE CHARGED MORE TAXES THAN BASIC RESIDENTIAL.

SO SINGLE DETACHED HOMES.

AND WHETHER OUR PHILOSOPHY BEHIND THAT HAS BEEN CONSIDERED AT ALL BY ADMINISTRATION OR COUNCIL AND KIND OF HOW WE CAN BETTER ARTICULATE OUR PHILOSOPHY AS TO WHY IT'S SET THE WAY IT IS? THANK YOU. THE CITY OF EDMONTON ACTUALLY JUST TOOK A LOOK AT THIS AND BECAUSE THEY DID DECREASE THEIR MULTI RESIDENTIAL WITH THE HOPES THAT IT WOULD BE PASSED ONTO THE TENANTS AND THEY DIDN'T SEE THAT HAPPEN, SO THEY ACTUALLY INCREASED TO A SIMILAR RATIO AS US.

MS. BASSI-KELLETT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MS. WOODWARD.

THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION.

TO GO BACK TO THE FIRST QUESTION, WE DO HAVE MULTI RESIDENTIAL AS A SEPARATE PROPERTY CLASS.

THOSE UNITS TEND TO BE COMMERCIAL.

THEY ARE LANDLORDS WHO ARE RENTING TO INDIVIDUALS.

IF WE ARE LOOKING AT, SAY, A CONDO STRUCTURE, THOSE WOULD ALL FALL UNDER THE RESIDENTIAL MILL RATE.

BUT WITH MULTI RESIDENTIAL BECAUSE THERE IS A BUSINESS COMPONENT, THE GENERAL THEORY IS THAT THOSE CLASSES OF PROPERTY WOULD BE TAXED A LITTLE BIT HIGHER. NOT AS HIGH AS A COMMERCIAL BECAUSE OF COURSE, THE PRIORITY GIVEN TO HOUSING AND MAKING THAT, I GUESS AS AFFORDABLE AS CAN BE.

OKAY. I'M JUST KIND OF WONDERING I MEAN, I THINK THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, COST OF LIVING FOR RESIDENTS, A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST IMPACTED BY COST OF LIVING, I MEAN, COME FROM KONGE KIND OF TOUCHED ON IT.

BUT THERE ARE SORT OF IN THE CITY, THERE'S PEOPLE WHO HAVE HIGH PAYING GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE INDUSTRY JOBS.

THERE'S LOTS OF PRIVATE JOBS THAT PAY VERY WELL.

AND THEN THERE'S KIND OF PEOPLE WHO ARE IN MORE ENTRY LEVEL TYPE WORK WHO REALLY DO, AS FAR AS I'VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE KIND OF STRUGGLE TO

[01:25:08]

AND SO I'M KIND OF WONDERING, LIKE WHEN I LOOK AT THE MULTI RESIDENTIAL RATE, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE TAXING BUSINESSES WHO ARE RENTING, BUT I MEAN, THEIR COSTS ARE GOING TO HELP DETERMINE WHAT RENT IS.

SO. HAVE THERE BEEN MUNICIPALITIES HAVE KIND OF ADDRESSED THIS ISSUE THROUGH THEIR MILL RATES? THE MAYOR JUST KIND OF REFERRED TO EDMONTON THERE.

AND I'M WONDERING, IS THERE A WAY WE CAN SET POLICIES SO THAT IF WE DID REDUCE THE TAXES FOR THIS CLASS, WE COULD ENSURE THAT IT SORT OF PASSED DOWN TO RESIDENTS AND KEEPS RENTS MORE REASONABLE.

BECAUSE IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT FOLKS THAT LIVE IN MULTI RESIDENTIAL, LARGE CONDO BUILDINGS, YOU KNOW, APARTMENTS, THEY'RE ACTUALLY LESS OF A BURDEN ON THE TAX BASE THAN SINGLE DETACHED HOMES, WHICH ARE THE MOST EXPENSIVE THING FOR US TO SERVICE.

SO IT JUST IT STRIKES ME AS A BIT PECULIAR THAT WE TAX THE MORE EXPENSIVE KIND OF PROPERTY, MORE THAN A LESS EXPENSIVE KIND OF PROPERTY RELATIVE TO EACH OTHER IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH IT COSTS THE CITY TO MAINTAIN THEM.

YEAH, AND I'M JUST REVIEWING THAT INTO AN ARTICLE AGAIN.

AND IT'S BASICALLY THE SAME ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT MULTI RESIDENTIALS GET THE HIGHER, HIGHER RATE.

BUT MS. BASSI-KELLETT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IT'S AN INTERESTING POSITION THAT COUNCILLOR MORSE HAS OUTLINED.

I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HAND, WE'D NEED TO GO BACK AND LOOK, IF THERE'S ANY TOOLS THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO USE TO ENSURE THAT ANY KIND OF A RELIEF WAS PROVIDED TO TENANTS THROUGH THEIR RENT.

I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS AND CERTAINLY NOT THROUGH THE PROPERTY ASSESSMENT AND TAXATION ACT.

YEAH, WE NEED TO LOOK INTO THAT ONE A LITTLE BIT MORE FULLY TO BE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD ALL OF THE TOOLS AT OUR DISPOSAL TO LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHATEVER THEY MIGHT BE. AND THERE MAY NOT BE MANY TOOLS GIVEN.

WE KNOW HOW HEAVILY LEGISLATED WE ARE WHEN IT COMES TO OUR TAX RULES.

THANK YOU. OKAY.

THANKS. I MEAN, THAT'S DEFINITELY A CONVERSATION I'M INTERESTED IN HAVING.

I GUESS WE'RE JUST ON THE POINT OF QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW FROM THE PRESENTATION AS OPPOSED TO POSITION STILL? I THINK WE'RE DONE.

OKAY. YEAH, WE'VE GOT ONE MORE QUESTION AND THEN WE'LL JUMP TO COMMENTS.

NOTHING FURTHER FROM YOU, COUNCILLOR MORSE.

COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

SO YEAH, ACTUALLY JULIAN'S QUESTION BROUGHT UP A QUESTION FOR ME, WHICH WAS JUST WHY DON'T WE NORMALLY VOTE ON LIKE THE MULTI RESIDENTIAL TO RESIDENTIAL RATIO, LIKE WE DO WITH THE COMMERCIAL TO RESIDENTIAL RATIO, WE DO IT ALL IN ONE BY-LAW.

SO WE ALSO DO AGRICULTURE MINING.

NO. YEAH. SO, EXPLAIN THAT FURTHER.

AND SO WE HAVE THESE GRAND DEBATES ABOUT THE RESIDENTIAL TO COMMERCIAL, BUT IT SORT OF SEEMS LIKE WE KIND OF BLOW PAST THE OTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTORS TO IT.

SO LIKE, YOU KNOW, IS THIS DISCUSSION TODAY, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST SIMPLY ABOUT THE RATIO BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL TO COMMERCIAL.

SO WHEN DOES THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE OTHER PROPERTY CLASSES TAKE PLACE? IF THERE WAS A DESIRE FROM COUNCIL, THIS WOULD BE THE TIME TO IF YOU WANT TO INCREASE AGRICULTURE, DECREASE AGRICULTURE, INCREASE PARKING, DECREASE PARKING, ALL THAT STUFF. MS. BASSI-KELLETT ANYTHING FURTHER ADMIN WOULD WANT TO COMMENT ON? THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE QUESTION.

AND CERTAINLY WE LOOKED FOR ANY OF THIS DISCUSSION AND DISCOURSE BY COUNCIL THAT CAN GUIDE US AS WE GO FORWARD AND BRING BACK, OF COURSE, THE MILL RATE MEMO FOR FINAL APPROVAL. SO ANY OF THOSE DISCUSSION POINTS WE WELCOME NOW WE'VE WELCOMED IN THE PAST, AND THAT'S A GREAT POINT.

THANK YOU. IT WAS A REALLY INTERESTING COMMENT THAT WAS MADE BY MS. WOODWARD UP THERE ABOUT SAYING THAT MOST OF THE GRAND MAJORITY OF THE MULTI RESIDENTIAL HOLDINGS CURRENTLY IN TOWN ARE COMMERCIAL ENTITIES.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THAT SORT OF STRUCK ME AS WELL.

THAT'S A SMOKING DEAL FOR THOSE COMMERCIAL ENTITIES WHEN OTHER COMMERCIAL ENTITIES IN TOWN PAY A, YOU KNOW, A 12.5 MILL RATE FOR THEIR COMMERCIAL ENTITY OR ENDEAVOR, WHEREAS SOMEONE WHO PROVIDES APARTMENT BUILDINGS, A COMMERCIAL ENDEAVOR LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, LIKE I SELL TVS, THEY SELL ROOMS, THEY'RE CERTAINLY GETTING IT FOR ONLY 6.28 MILLS.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

YOU KNOW, I GO BACK AND NOT THAT I AGREE WITH COUNCILLOR KONGE ABOUT IT, BUT WHEN HE SAYS COMMERCIAL IS COMMERCIAL, WELL, MAYBE COMMERCIAL SHOULD JUST BE COMMERCIAL IN THIS REGARD

[01:30:02]

DOING A MOTION OR? I ACTUALLY FOR DISCUSSION.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THERE'S WELL, I GUESS MAYBE I'LL START WITH THE QUESTION, BECAUSE I KNOW MS..

WOODWARD, WHEN SHE MADE THAT COMMENT, WASN'T BEING ASKED SPECIFICALLY THAT QUESTION.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IF WE LOOK AT A PERCENTAGE OF THOSE MULTI RESIDENTIAL, ARE, YOU KNOW, 100% OF THEM COMMERCIAL ENDEAVORS, OR IS THERE AN AMOUNT OF THEM THAT WOULDN'T BE CONSIDERED A COMMERCIAL ENDEAVOR? MS. BASSI-KELLETT.

THANK YOU. I'LL ASK MS. WOODWARD IF SHE COULD RESPOND.

THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO CLARIFY.

MULTI RESIDENTIAL UNITS ARE APARTMENT BUILDINGS THAT ARE OWNED BY AN ENTITY FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING MONEY.

SO MAYBE COMMERCIAL IS A LITTLE TOO NARROW A WORD IN THE CONTEXT OF OUR PROPERTY CLASSES, BUT APARTMENT BUILDINGS ARE THERE TO MAKE MONEY FOR THEIR OWNER.

TRADITIONALLY ACROSS MOST MUNICIPALITIES THE REASON THAT THEY'RE NOT TAXED AT A COMMERCIAL RATE IS BECAUSE THE VALUE PLACED ON HOUSING.

IF WE WERE TO, FOR EXAMPLE, START TAXING ALL OF OUR APARTMENT BLOCKS AT 12.5% OR 12.5 MILL RATE, THAT INCREASE WOULD BE PASSED ON TO THE RENTERS OR LEASERS OR WHOEVER IS LIVING IN THEIR BUILDINGS.

SO THAT'S THE ARGUMENT FOR KEEPING IT TRADITIONALLY CLOSER TO A HOUSING OR RESIDENTIAL RATE.

WELL, BUT THERE'S ALSO MARKET INVOLVED IN THAT.

SO WE TALKED ABOUT IF WE GAVE THEM A TAX BREAK, THAT THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS TRICKLE DOWN TO THE RENT.

BUT IF THERE'S AN INCREASE, THAT SOMEHOW THAT THAT'S A SURETY THAT THAT WOULD BE TRICKLED DOWN TO THE END PERSON.

YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THERE IS A MARKET THAT'S INVOLVED, YOU KNOW, THAT MAY POSITION SOMEONE A DEVELOPER MAYBE LIKE A CLOUD WORKS OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES TO BE ABLE TO HAVE SAY AN ADVANTAGE THERE AND MAYBE BE ABLE TO OFFER MORE COMPETITIVE RATES TO, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING APARTMENT BUILDINGS. I'M NOT SURE.

YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY I'D LIKE TO HAVE THE DISCUSSION TO AT LEAST PUT A BIT MORE PRESSURE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THESE SOUTHERN OWNERS, ONE OF THE LARGEST SOUTHERN OWNERS THAT WE HAVE IS NORTHVIEW PROPERTY [INAUDIBLE], WHICH HOLDS THE MAJORITY OF OUR APARTMENT BUILDINGS.

THEY ARE VERY MUCH A COMMERCIAL ENTITY.

THEY'RE VERY MUCH JUST, YOU KNOW, AN INVESTMENT FUND OF SORTS.

AND, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING, YOU KNOW, A BIT MORE OF A BURDEN ONTO SOME OF THESE LARGER SOUTHERN OWNED INSTITUTIONS, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE MORE EFFECTIVE MOVES IN DOING THIS, AS OPPOSED TO THEN SPLITTING UP SAY, WHAT'S COMMERCIAL OR NON COMMERCIAL.

SO I THINK FOR THE DISCUSSION POSSIBLY MAKING A MOTION SORT OF SORRY FOR THE DISCUSSION, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO HAVE MULTI RESIDENTIAL MILL RATE BE EQUAL TO COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL.

MOVING FORWARD. MS. BASSI-KELLETT WOULD ADMIN LIKE TO TAKE THAT UNDER ADVISEMENT AND PROVIDE A BIT MORE INFORMATION TO COUNCIL? THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YEAH ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THERE COULD BE A LOT OF WE WOULD WANT TO COME BACK WITH SOME MORE FULSOME INFORMATION FOR COUNCIL'S CONSIDERATION SO WE CAN YOU IN MAKING AN INFORMED DECISION.

THANK YOU. YEAH.

AND CERTAINLY I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT.

I CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, IT'S MORE OF AN IDEA THAT HAS COME FROM THE DISCUSSION.

SO WHETHER THAT AMOUNT, WHETHER IT'S 12.5 OR WHETHER IT'S ANOTHER AMOUNT.

BUT I CERTAINLY THINK THAT ADJUSTING SOME OF THAT MULTI RESIDENTIAL AMOUNTS COULD MAYBE CHANGE SOME OF THE DISCUSSION AND SOME OF THE BURDEN ON COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY TALKING ABOUT.

BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF THOSE APARTMENT BUILDINGS.

OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? COUNCILLOR SILVERIO? THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION FOR COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS. SO THE MULTI RESIDENTIAL WOULD JUST MEAN BY APARTMENT, RIGHT? I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT SOME PEOPLE THAT HAVE PLACES WHERE THEY RENT IT OUT AS WELL.

JUST. CORRECT.

SO THE ASSESSOR WOULD DEFINE THAT AS A RESIDENTIAL VERSUS AND CONDOS ARE DEFINED AS RESIDENTIAL, WHERE SOME PEOPLE THEN RENT THEIR CONDO AND MAKE MONEY.

BUT IT'S NOT, FROM THE ASSESSOR'S PERSPECTIVE, A MULTI RESIDENTIAL.

MS. BASSI-KELLETT.

MS. WOODWARD. THAT'S CORRECT.

TAXATION DOESN'T REALLY WORRY ABOUT OWNERSHIP.

IT'S PROPERTY USE.

WE HAVE REACHED BEYOND OUR 30 OR 90 MINUTE MARK.

[01:35:02]

[01:44:17]

MS. BASSI-KELLETT DID HAVE ON COUNCILLOR KONGE AND KIND OF TRIGGERED ME TO THINK ABOUT A FEW OF THE THE BIG COMMERCIAL THAT'S COMING UP WOULD BE SISSONS THAT WOULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON OUR ASSESSMENT NEXT YEAR.

A BIT FURTHER DOWN WOULD BE THE STUFF LIKE JTFN BUILDING OUT IN [INAUDIBLE], A FEW MORE MULTIFAMILY RESIDENTIALS.

AND I THOUGHT IT WAS IN THE CHAMBER'S SUBMISSION ABOUT WHEN THESE BIG PROJECTS THAT ARE GOING TO KIND OF INCREASE THE ASSESSMENT WHETHER WE

[01:45:01]

JUST, I GUESS, WONDERING IF WE'RE ANTICIPATING A BIG ASSESSMENT CHANGE IN 2023 OR ANY REFLECTIONS ON THAT? THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR.

SORRY. I THOUGHT I SAW SOMETHING IN MY INBOX AND I HAD LITTLE MORE THAN I THOUGHT I NEEDED TO HAVE.

IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT THAT WE HAVE GOING AHEAD RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE HAD SOME INCREASES IN BUILDING PERMITS, WHICH WE'RE VERY HEARTENED TO SEE SOME EXPANSION THAT COULD BE HAPPENING. SO THAT'S VERY GOOD NEWS FOR US.

IN TERMS OF WHAT THE IMPLICATIONS WILL BE LIKE FOR OUR TAX YEAR IN 2023 I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHEN THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO COME ON TO BE FINALIZED AND BE MADE PART OF THE ASSESSMENT, OVERALL ASSESSMENT OF THE CITY.

SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT PREMATURE TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION RIGHT NOW.

I'D NEED TO TAKE IT UNDER ADVISEMENT AND COME BACK WITH INFORMATION.

THANK YOU. FOR SURE.

I'M A STREAM OF CONSCIOUS.

I'LL KEEP IT TO MYSELF AND REMEMBER FOR FUTURE DISCUSSIONS.

ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? IF NOT, WE CAN JUMP INTO THE COMMENTS, WHICH IS OR WHETHER FOLKS ARE IN SUPPORT OF MAINTAINING THE MUNICIPAL PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY DISTRIBUTION AS REFLECTED BY THE COMMERCIAL TO RESIDENTIAL MILL RATE RATIO FOR THE 2022 TAX YEAR.

ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, DISCUSSION? FOLKS CAN ALSO THINK ABOUT IT AND STATE THEIR OPINION WHEN WE BRING THIS TO COUNCIL NEXT.

BUT COUNCILLOR MORGAN.

THANKS. SO I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS SOME MORE, I THINK, AT THE VERY LEAST.

SORRY CAN YOU HOLD ON TWO SECONDS.

COUNCILLOR KONGE AND MORSE JUST CHECKING THAT YOU'RE STILL ON THE LINE OR DID WE DROP YOU? MY CALL DROPPED FOR A SECOND, BUT I'M BACK.

ALL RIGHT. PERFECT. THANKS.

AND I'M STILL HERE. OKAY.

I DO THINK THAT WE SHOULD STOP HAVING BEING GUIDED BY KEEPING THE PROPORTION OF RESIDENTIAL TO NON-RESIDENTIAL RELATIVELY STABLE.

THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME AS A PHILOSOPHY OR AS AN OVERARCHING GOAL TO STRIVE TOWARDS.

SO I THINK AT THE VERY LEAST I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US HAVE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE THIS.

BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH IF WE DECIDE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PROPERTY TAX INCREASE OF 4% THAN IT THE INCREASE APPLIES TO BOTH NONRESIDENTIAL AND RESIDENTIAL EQUALLY.

IS THAT CLEAR? MS. BASSI-KELLETT.

THE RECOMMENDATION AS PRESENTED WITH THAT SUPPORT, WHAT COUNCILLOR MORGAN'S HOPING FOR? MY APOLOGIES. I WAS READING SOMETHING ELSE.

IF COUNCILLOR MORGAN WOULDN'T MIND REPEATING THAT.

THANK YOU. I GUESS IT WOULD BE THAT THE RATIO OF 1 TO 2.26 WILL ENSURE THAT BOTH RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL WILL GET THE SAME PROPERTY TAX INCREASE, WHICH WE WERE FORECASTING AT FIVE POINT SOMETHING PERCENT BACK IN DECEMBER.

THANK YOU. YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

SO INSTEAD OF THE END GOAL BEING KEEP THE PROPORTION CONSISTENT THAT RESIDENTIAL VERSUS NON RESIDENTIAL HAS TO CONTRIBUTE.

FOCUS MORE ON THE THE RATIO BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL TO NONRESIDENTIAL DECIDE THAT WE'RE SATISFIED WITH THAT AND THEN IF THERE HAS TO BE INCREASES THEN BOTH ARE AFFECTED EQUALLY BY AN INCREASE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

BECAUSE I DON'T SEE ANY REASONABLE JUSTIFICATION FOR HAVING A SMALLER AMOUNT OF BUSINESSES TAKE ON MORE OF A BURDEN JUST TO FULFILL AN ARBITRARY PROPORTION.

I DO MORE AND MORE SEE IT BEING PROBLEMATIC THAT WE TRY TO GAUGE PROPERTY TAXES ACCORDING TO ABILITY TO PAY IN THAT I MEAN, THAT'S MY FIRST INSTINCT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, TAXES SHOULD BE SCALED SOMEHOW ACCORDING TO ABILITY TO PAY.

[01:50:02]

WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT HOW RICH OR POOR A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNER IS IN TERMS OF THEIR ABILITY TO PAY.

IT'S THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY.

AND SO IT ALSO MIGHT NOT BE FAIR, BUT ALSO TOO COMPLICATED TO TRY TO DIVVY UP COMMERCIAL PROPERTY OWNERS INTO BASED ON THEIR ABILITY TO PAY.

I DO STILL THINK THAT COMMERCIAL TAXES SHOULD BE HIGHER THAN OR NONRESIDENTIAL TAXES SHOULD BE HIGHER THAN RESIDENTIAL JUST BASED ON THE FACT THAT IN TERMS OF PHILOSOPHICALLY, EVERYBODY NEEDS A PLACE TO LIVE.

AND THAT'S SORT OF A BASIC NECESSITY.

EVERYONE NEEDS SPACE TO CALL HOME, YOU KNOW, AND YOU'RE NOT PROFITING OFF WELL.

IN THEORY, MANY PEOPLE ARE NOT PROFITING OFF, JUST LIVING SOMEWHERE, HAVING A PLACE TO LIVE.

THAT'S A BASIC HUMAN NECESSITY.

IF YOU OWN LAND, IF YOU HAVE SPACE SPECIFICALLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF MAKING PROFITS, I THINK IT'S REALISTIC TO TAX THAT AT A HIGHER RATE THAN RESIDENTIAL.

BUT HOW MUCH HIGHER? IT GETS INTO A MUCH TRICKIER DISCUSSION THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO START IT NOW, EXCEPT I THINK IT ALSO IS VALID TO THINK ABOUT.

THE MORE THAT WE DRASTICALLY CHANGE SOMETHING, THE MORE IT CREATES SHOCKS AND ADDITIONAL BURDENS ON ANY ONE THING.

SO I THINK THAT IT IS VALID TO THINK ABOUT CONSISTENCY AND PREDICTABILITY, BUT OUR SYSTEM AS IT IS NOW, I AGREE, DOES NOT PARTICULARLY CREATE PREDICTABILITY OR CONSISTENCY FOR BUSINESS OWNERS WHEN A SHRINKING POOL IS BEING ASKED TO CARRY THE SAME BURDEN.

SO THAT WOULD BE AT A MINIMUM WHERE I WOULD HOPE WE WOULD GO.

AND PERHAPS THERE'S FURTHER NUANCE OR DISCUSSIONS WE CAN HAVE GOING FORWARD IN TERMS OF THE RATIO ITSELF BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND NONRESIDENTIAL.

THANK YOU.

ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, DISCUSSION FROM COUNCIL? YEAH. I'VE GOT COMMENTS.

COUNCILLOR MORSE. THANKS.

YEAH. JUST AS I NOTED IN MY QUESTION, I MEAN, I'M CURIOUS IN SEEING A BIT MORE DISCUSSION ABOUT MULTI RESIDENTIAL VERSUS RESIDENTIAL AND WHERE I'D LIKE TO FOCUS SOME RESEARCH OR SOME THINKING IS JUST ON THE PROPERTY TAX BURDEN WE'RE PLACING ON RESIDENTS AND OR BUSINESSES BASED ON WHAT IT COSTS THE CITY TO MAINTAIN INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THEM.

SO I THINK SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE SHOULD YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT FAIRNESS A BIT.

COUNCILLOR KONGE HAS REFERRED TO FAIRNESS, BUT IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTS WHO LIVE IN MULTI RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES DO COST THE CITY PROPORTIONATELY LESS THAN RESIDENTS WHO ARE IN SINGLE DETACHED.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

IT MAY BE THAT, YOU KNOW, AS COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS POINTED OUT, THE COMMERCIAL ASPECT OF THAT IS PART OF IT.

BUT AND I THINK THAT WE DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO SIMPLY JUST BE PASSING SAVINGS ON TO BUSINESSES THAT DON'T GO BACK TO THE RESIDENTS.

THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I INTEND.

I THINK JUST A COMMENT ON COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS IDEA.

I WASN'T REALLY INTENDING THAT WE START TAXING MULTI RESIDENTIAL AT THE COMMERCIAL RATE.

I THINK THAT COULD HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF DRIVING RENTS SKYROCKETING IN THE CITY.

WE NEED TO BE QUITE CAREFUL ABOUT THAT.

MY INTENTION FOR BRINGING IT UP WAS MOSTLY JUST TO POINT OUT THAT IT STRIKES ME AS SLIGHTLY UNFAIR TO TAX MULTI RESIDENTIAL HIRER SIMPLY BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY IS, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS TAX DISTRIBUTION IS CONCERNED, IS ACTUALLY KIND OF A LESS COSTLY WAY TO LIVE.

SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT I'D LOVE TO BE ABLE TO REFLECT, BUT THE COMMERCIAL ASPECT OF IT IS A PORTION OF IT.

REGARDING THE CHAMBER'S PRESENTATION, I AGREE AND I'M SUPPORTIVE OF COUNCIL PURSUING A MILL RATE POLICY OR A SET OF POLICIES RELATED TO HOW MILL RATES ARE SET THAT SET OUT COUNCIL'S PHILOSOPHY AND HELPS COUNCIL SET MILL RATES BASED ON IT.

I THINK I VAGUELY RECALL US DOING THIS IN THE PAST OR HAVING A CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS IN THE PAST, SO I'M KIND OF CURIOUS TO HEAR ABOUT THAT.

BUT I THINK IT WOULD HELP US AND FUTURE COUNCILS, MOSTLY FUTURE COUNCILS AT THIS POINT, YOU KNOW,

[01:55:04]

SO I WOULD HOPE THAT OTHER COUNCILLORS ARE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT CONVERSATION HAPPENING.

INTERESTED TO HEAR THE MAYOR'S COMMENT.

SHE'S ALWAYS ON THE BALL IN TERMS OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN UP TO IN THE PAST AND AND WHAT WE CAN DO IN THE FUTURE TO KIND OF BETTER GOVERN OURSELVES.

THANKS. THANK YOU.

ANYTHING FURTHER? FOR MYSELF, I AM SUPPORTIVE OF THE RECOMMENDATION TO KEEP THE MILL RATE RATIO THE SAME FOR THIS YEAR.

I'D ALSO SUPPORT A AND NOT TO INCLUDE IT AS PART OF THIS MOTION, BUT I'LL BRING IT FORWARD WHEN WE'RE HAVING OUR BUDGET 2023 DISCUSSION AND STUFF THAT WE WANT TO SEE IN IT, BUT A HOLISTIC REVIEW OF OUR TAX ADMINISTRATION BY-LAW, INCLUDING WHO WE GIVE TAX EXEMPTIONS TO AND THE VARIETY OF PROPERTY CLASSIFICATIONS. BUT AS OUR TERM IS COMING TO A CLOSE, I LEAVE IT UP TO THE NEXT COUNCIL TO DETERMINE WHETHER THAT'S THEIR PRIORITY AND WHAT PRINCIPLES THEY WANT TO APPLY TO THE REVIEW AND WHAT OUTCOMES THEY WANT TO ACHIEVE WITH IT.

BY DIRECTING STAFF TO DRAFT THE POLICIES NOW WE'LL HAVE TO TAKE SOMETHING OFF THEIR PLATE.

WITH JUST FIVE MONTHS LEFT, I WANT STAFF TO FOCUS ON WRAPPING UP SOME OF THE FILES THAT WE STARTED IN THIS TERM, AND PARTICULARLY THE WATER RATE REVIEW.

I ALSO THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO COMPLETE THE REVIEW ONCE THE GNWT HAS UPDATED THE PROPERTY ASSESSMENT AND TAXATION ACT AS CHANGES IN THE TERRITORIAL LEGISLATION CAN IMPACT WHAT WE DO AT THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL.

SO WHETHER THERE IS SOME BUDGET ASK AT TO PREPARE OUR POSITION FOR PATA BECAUSE YOU KNOW DOES THE CITY WANT TO ADVOCATE THAT WE KEEP OUR CURRENT ASSESSMENT OR DO WE WANT TO ADVOCATE FOR THE MARKET REVIEW? SO I DO THINK THAT IF ADMIN DOESN'T HAVE THAT IN THE BUDGET YET, THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO CONSIDER BECAUSE AS BOTH THE CHAMBER AND THE RESIDENTS NOTED, THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS OF ASSESSING VALUES AND PERHAPS THE GNWT WILL MAKE THAT CHANGE.

AND THEN THE CITY WILL HAVE TO DO A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW OF OUR TAX ADMINISTRATION BY-LAW TO DETERMINE THE IMPACT TO BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTS AND THEN MAKE CHANGES TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.

OR MAYBE THEY'LL ALLOW US TO CREATE A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT PROPERTY CLASSIFICATIONS LIKE WHAT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST, THE DERELICT PROPERTY TAX CLASSIFICATION.

MAYBE THERE'LL BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO MORE WITH SMALL BUSINESS CLASSIFICATION.

AS I'VE SAID A BUNCH OF TIMES TODAY, PATA IS CURRENTLY A BLUNT TOOL.

WE'LL SEE IF WE'LL BE ABLE TO CHANGE THAT.

BUT I DO APPRECIATE THE CHAMBER'S FEEDBACK.

I THINK HAVING THOSE POLICY STATEMENTS IS A GOOD PRACTICE AND SOMETHING TO RECOMMEND TO THE NEXT COUNCIL TO SET UP AT THE BEGINNING AND THEN FOR FUTURE COUNCILS TO REVIEW AT THE START OF EACH OF THEIR TERMS. BECAUSE AGAIN, IT'S A PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DO YOU WANT TO TAX THIS OR THAT.

AND ALONG WITH THE GNWT'S REVIEW OF PATA, I THINK WILL BE IMPORTANT FOR THE NEXT COUNCIL TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION AND INCLUDE ALLOCATING DOLLARS AND RESOURCES BECAUSE THESE ARE YOU CAN HAVE A LOT OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

AND LOOKING AT I THINK HALIFAX WAS GOING TO TRY TO SEE IF THEY COULD HAVE A CAVEAT ON THE SMALL BUSINESS TAX SO THAT IF A BUSINESS DOES GET IT, THEY HAVE TO PASS IT ON TO THE TENANT.

MAYBE THERE IS SOMETHING THERE ABOUT THE MULTI RESIDENTIAL THAT IF WE GIVE IT THEY ARE LOCKED INTO PASSING IT ON TO THE TENANT.

IT GETS TRICKY. SO THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING FOR MORE OF THAT COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW.

SO IN A NUTSHELL, I SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATION AND WHEN WE HAVE BUDGET 2023 DISCUSSIONS COME JUNE OR SEPTEMBER, DEFINITELY BE HAVING A FEW QUESTIONS ON MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE ALLOCATING DOLLARS TO BE ABLE TO DO THESE COMPREHENSIVE REVIEWS AND BE PREPARED TO PROVIDE SOLID FEEDBACK TO THE GNWT ON PATA RECOMMENDATIONS AND THEN ALSO PREPARING SOME OF THOSE POLICY STATEMENTS FOR THE FUTURE COUNCIL.

ANYTHING FURTHER FROM COUNCIL? SEEING NONE. I KNOW WE'VE GOT A FEW, ADMINS, GOT A FEW POINTS THAT THEY'LL BRING BACK FURTHER INFORMATION TO COUNCIL.

SO WE WILL BRING THIS FORWARD TO OUR NEXT COUNCIL MEETING, WHICH IS MONDAY, MAY 9TH, 2022, AND THE RECOMMENDATION WILL BE COMING FORWARD AS PRESENTED.

[02:00:08]

NEXT, THANKS FOR BEING SO PATIENT.

[6. A presentation regarding Diavik mine closure.]

SO WITH THAT, I WILL ASK CHERISH AND AMANDA TO COME ON UP.

MS. BASSI-KELLETT. DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO KICK IT OFF? NO. OKAY, PERFECT.

ONCE YOU'RE READY, YOU CAN JUST PRESS THE LITTLE BUTTON AND.

GOOD AFTERNOON AND THANKS FOR HAVING US TODAY.

WE'LL BE AS BRIEF AS WE CAN SO WE DON'T KEEP YOU TOO LONG.

I'M CHERISH WINSOR CORPORATE RELATIONS BUSINESS PARTNER FOR DIAVIK DIAMOND MINE.

YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF. HELLO, EVERYONE.

I'M AMANDA [INAUDIBLE] I'M A [INAUDIBLE] ADVISOR AT DIAVIK DIAMOND MINE AS WELL.

SO WHY ARE WE HERE? DIAVIK IS SLATED CURRENTLY TO CLOSE IN 2025, SO WE'VE STARTED THE PROCESS OF SPEAKING WITH COMMUNITIES AND VARIOUS INTERESTED PARTNERS ABOUT WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE AND HOW THAT MIGHT AFFECT POPULATIONS AROUND THE TERRITORY.

SO TODAY WE'RE GOING TO WELL, WE'LL START WITH THE SAFETY SHARE BECAUSE WE'RE MINING AND WE ALWAYS DO.

WE'LL GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW OF DIAVIK AND THEN WE'LL GO INTO SOME OF THE SOCIO ECONOMIC WORK THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AND THEN HAVE TIME FOR QUESTIONS.

SO FOR THE TODAY'S SAFETY SHARE, IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A WELLNESS SHARE.

LAST YEAR, RIO TINTO COMMISSIONED A REPORT ON WORKPLACE CULTURE, PSYCHOLOGICAL SAFETY AND PHYSICAL SAFETY.

SO AT DIAVIK THAT MEANT A COUPLE OF LISTENING SESSIONS.

WE HAD SPECIFIC INDIGENOUS AND FEMALE LISTENING SESSIONS.

THE REPORT WAS ACROSS THE ENTIRE WORLD, ALL OF OUR SITES.

AND SO WHEN YOU READ IT, IF ANYBODY'S HAD A CHANCE, IT IS SPECIFIC.

IT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO DIAVIK.

IT'S ACROSS OUR ENTIRE BUSINESS.

IT DOES BREAK IT DOWN BY COUNTRY, BUT NOT SPECIFIC TO DIAVIK.

SO IT'S SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND.

REGARDLESS OF THAT, THOUGH, THERE WERE SOME PRETTY DIFFICULT THINGS TO READ IN THAT REPORT ONCE IT CAME OUT AND SOMETHING THAT WE'RE TAKING SERIOUSLY AND HAVING A LOOK AT AS A BUSINESS AND AS A LOCAL BUSINESS THAT HAS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT TIES TO THE COMMUNITIES AND WHAT WE CAN DO AND HOW WE CAN MAKE DIAVIK A SAFE PLACE FOR EVERYONE.

SO WE'RE WORKING WITH THE STATUS OF WOMEN COUNCIL, GNWT AND A FEW OTHERS, AND WE'RE COMING UP WITH AN ACTION PLAN NOW TO BRING US THROUGH OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS, THROUGH CLOSURE AND WHAT WE CAN DO TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES THAT WERE IN THE REPORT.

SO DIAVIK FOR THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW WE ARE THE SECOND DIAMOND MINE IN THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES, WE BEGAN OPERATIONS IN 2003.

SO WE'RE COMING UP ON OUR 20TH ANNIVERSARY.

SO UNLIKE THE OTHER MINES WE'RE AN ISLAND, WE OFTEN REFER TO THE MINE AS AN ISLAND.

IT'S ON LAC DE GRAS.

AND YOU CAN SEE THERE IN THE PHOTO THAT WE WE BUILT DIKES AROUND THE PITS.

THEY WEREN'T PITS AT THE TIME, BUT WE BUILT DIKES TO BE ABLE TO MINE THOSE PITS.

SO THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN SOME OF THE OTHER MINES.

WE HAVE THREE KIMBERLITE PITS.

SO THAT'S JUST WHAT WE CALL THEM.

A21 A418 AND A154.

THOSE ARE THE A STANDS FOR ANOMALY.

SO WE HAVE ABOUT 1100 EMPLOYEES YEAR TO YEAR AND A LITTLE BIT LOWER THAN HALF OUR NORTHERNERS.

WE HAVE AGREEMENTS WITH FIVE PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT COMMUNITIES.

WE CALL THEM PAS, AND WE MAY REFER TO THEM AS THAT IN THE PRESENTATION.

WE HAVE AGREEMENTS, OUR ENVIRONMENTAL AGREEMENT, AMONG MANY OTHER AGREEMENTS.

BUT THESE ARE SOME OF THE SPECIFIC AGREEMENTS TO THIS.

AND WE ALSO HAVE OUR SOCIOECONOMIC MONITORING AGREEMENT, WHICH WE PRODUCE A REPORT FOR EVERY YEAR THAT LISTS EMPLOYMENT NUMBERS, PROCUREMENT, ALL OF THAT FOR THE NORTH.

SO AS I SAID, WE'RE CLOSING IN 2025.

AND WHAT DOES THIS MAYBE MEAN FOR COMMUNITIES? WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR YELLOWKNIFE? AND THAT'S WHAT WE'LL BE ADDRESSING AS WE GO ON.

AMANDA. DO YOU WANT TO ADVANCE FOR ME? SURE CAN.

THANKS, EVERYONE.

SO WE'RE AT SORT OF THE BEGINNING OF OUR JOURNEY OF WORKING WITH COMMUNITIES TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE IMPACTS OF OUR CLOSURE WILL BE ON INDIVIDUAL COMMUNITY LEVELS.

SO THE FIRST THING THAT WE'LL WALK THROUGH IS THE BENEFITS THAT DIAVIK HAS BROUGHT TO NOT ONLY YELLOWKNIFE, NORTHWEST TERRITORIES, BUT MULTIPLE COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE NORTH BY

[02:05:09]

SO THAT'S WHAT WE'LL GO THROUGH RIGHT NOW.

OUR THREE MAIN AREAS OF BENEFITS THAT WE CONTRIBUTE TO THE NORTH ARE BY WAY OF EMPLOYMENT, BUSINESS, SPEND AND TRAINING.

SO AS CHERISH MENTIONED, EVERY YEAR WE PUBLISH OUR SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT REPORT OR SEMA REPORT AS SOME KNOW IT AS.

SO THAT'S PART OF THE AGREEMENT THAT WE HAVE WITH THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES GOVERNMENT, SORRY, THAT WE REPORT ON THESE TYPES OF CONTRIBUTIONS ON AN ANNUAL BASIS. SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE IS DISTILL THESE TYPES OF CONTRIBUTIONS ON A TERRITORIAL LEVEL DOWN TO WHAT THAT MEANS FOR THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE.

SO WE ARE ONE OF THE NORTH'S LARGEST EMPLOYERS.

WE'RE THE ONLY OF OUT OF THE THREE MINES.

WE'RE THE ONLY MINING COMPANY THAT STILL HAS A CORPORATE OFFICE HERE IN YELLOWKNIFE.

ALL OF OUR MANAGEMENT STILL LIVES HERE IN YELLOWKNIFE.

OVER 70% OF OUR SPENDING STAYS IN THE NORTH.

SO WE HAVE STRUGGLED TO MEET OUR EMPLOYMENT TARGETS FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS OVER OUR MINE LIFE IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF NORTHERNERS EMPLOYED AT THE MINE.

BUT WE HAVE SURPASSED OUR COMMITMENTS IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF SPENDING THAT HAS STAYED IN THE NORTH OVER THE LIFE OF THE MINE.

SO IT'S INTERESTING LISTENING TO THE MILL RATE CONVERSATION.

WHO KNEW THAT COULD BE SO INTERESTING? I LEARNED A LOT.

I DID SOME QUICK GOOGLING, NOT GOOGLING BECAUSE IT'S NOT PUBLIC, BUT IN MY OWN INTERNAL FILES TO SEE HOW MUCH WE PAY IN THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE AND OUR PROPERTY TAXES TO THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE ARE QUITE SMALL, ACTUALLY.

IT'S AROUND $50,000 A YEAR.

AND SO THE MAJORITY OF OUR TAXES GO, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, TO THE FEDERAL AND THE TERRITORIAL GOVERNMENTS.

AND SO, OBVIOUSLY, THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE BENEFITS FROM SOME OF THAT AS WELL.

BUT IT'S NOT [INAUDIBLE] DIRECTLY.

SO THIS GOES THROUGH OUR EMPLOYMENT STATISTICS AND GETS INTO ABOUT WHAT I JUST MENTIONED ABOUT HOW MUCH OF OUR EMPLOYEES ACTUALLY LIVE IN YELLOWKNIFE.

SO IN THIS INFORMATION IT WAS FROM I THINK THIS IS FROM THE 2020 REPORT.

IT GOES FROM KIND OF 2018 TO 2020.

SO IT'S A BIT OF A SNAPSHOT OF THOSE TWO PERIODS OF TIME.

SO IN 2020, APPROXIMATELY 350 RESIDENTS OF YELLOWKNIFE WERE EMPLOYED AT THE MINE.

AND I THINK WE GET INTO IN THE NEXT SLIDE KIND OF WHAT THAT MEANS BY IN TERMS OF A DOLLAR VALUES THAT THOSE PEOPLE'S SALARIES ARE BRINGING INTO YELLOWKNIFE AND SPENDING ON YELLOWKNIFE BUSINESSES.

BUT SORT OF THE POINT OF THIS SLIDE IS TO SHOW THAT EVEN THOUGH WE'RE CLOSING IN 2025, THERE HAVE BEEN REDUCTIONS ALREADY IN OUR EMPLOYEE BASE.

SO 2025 WILL BE THE END OF OUR OPERATIONS, BUT WE'RE OBVIOUSLY GOING THROUGH A RAMPING DOWN PERIOD UP UNTIL 2025.

SO EVEN THESE NUMBERS FROM 2020 ARE A 6% PERCENT REDUCTION FROM 2018.

AND THEN WE HAD SOME QUESTIONS LAST TIME WE GAVE THIS PRESENTATION TO KIND OF PAINT A BIT MORE OF A PICTURE OF WHAT THIS MEANS FOR SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES.

AND SO WHAT WE'VE TRIED TO HIGHLIGHT HERE IS OUT OF THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE HAVE PARTICIPATION AGREEMENTS WITH IN 2018 THAT MADE UP 12.8% OF OUR EMPLOYEE BASE.

SO 143 PEOPLE DISTRIBUTED BETWEEN YELLOWKNIFE, [INAUDIBLE] AND THEIR COLLECTIVE EARNING WOULD HAVE BEEN AROUND $11.3 MILLION.

SO IT'S A LOT OF NUMBERS.

AND SO WHAT WE TRY TO DO HERE IS PUT IT INTO SOME MORE CATCHIER PHRASES THAT KIND OF SUM UP WHAT OUR OPERATIONS MEANS FOR THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE. SO IT'S $35.2 MILLION DOLLARS IN WAGES AND SALARIES A YEAR, AND THAT'S BEFORE ALLOWANCES, BONUSES AND BENEFITS, WHICH I CAN TELL YOU FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IS A LOT MORE LIKE THAT'S WHAT MAKES OUR WAGES OUR BASED AS A GLOBAL COMPANY.

IT'S A SIMILAR TO WHAT THE GOVERNMENT OF THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES DOES.

SO OBVIOUSLY TO ATTRACT PEOPLE TO WORK HERE, YOU GET PAID AN ADDITIONAL AMOUNT OF MONEY.

AND SO THAT NUMBER DOES NOT INCLUDE THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY.

SO THAT'S 3.6% OF THE CITY'S ENTIRE EMPLOYMENT INCOME.

THAT TRANSLATES TO $20.4 MILLION DOLLARS IN PERSONAL DISPOSABLE INCOME, WHICH IS ESTIMATED TO BE ABOUT $14.3 MILLION DOLLARS FOR YELLOWKNIFE'S RETAIL SECTOR.

SO THAT'S AFTER THE ECONOMISTS WHO PUT TOGETHER THIS REPORT SUBTRACTED OUT WHAT PEOPLE WOULD KIND OF SPEND ON OUT OF TERRITORY, TRAVEL, RENT OR MORTGAGE, THAT KIND OF THING.

[02:10:01]

SO THEIR NUMBERS ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THE NUMBERS THAT WE GAVE THEM, WHICH ARE MOSTLY FROM 2018 AND 2019.

SO JUST A LITTLE CAVEAT FOR EVERYONE TO HAVE.

SO THE RESULT OF THIS CONSUMER SPENDING IN THE CITY IS EQUIVALENT TO 41 FULL TIME JOBS ON AN ANNUAL BASIS.

SO IN ADDITION TO THE WAGES FROM EMPLOYMENT GENERATING THAT TYPE OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

I GUESS THE WORD WOULD BE NOT GROWTH ACTIVITY.

WE ALSO MAKE CONTRIBUTIONS IN OTHER WAYS TO THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE THROUGH OUR COMMUNITY CONTRIBUTION PROGRAMS. SO THAT'S VARIED OVER THE YEARS, BUT WE'VE MADE FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTIONS TO.

THIS IS A LIST OF ORGANIZATIONS OR INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE'VE SUPPORTED OVER THE YEARS.

SO OBVIOUSLY AT THE END OF OPERATIONS, WE WILL NOT HAVE THE BUDGET THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO CONTINUE WITH THIS SCALE OF COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS.

SO THE NEXT PART OF THE PRESENTATION GOES INTO WHAT THE ECONOMISTS HAD FORECASTED AS THE IMPACTS OF CLOSURE FROM A SOCIOECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE.

AGAIN, WE'VE TRIED TO KIND OF DIAL THIS INTO WHAT THE IMPACTS WOULD BE SPECIFICALLY TO THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE.

SO THIS FIRST SLIDE JUST SHOWS WHAT OUR TOTAL PROPORTION OF OUR CONTRIBUTION TO THE OVERALL GDP OF THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES IS, WHICH IS, LIKE WE SAID AT THE BEGINNING, AROUND 10%.

SO AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, IN 2025, IF YOU REMOVE 10% OF THAT GDP, THAT IS GOING TO HAVE SOME PRETTY SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS, NOT JUST ON THE TERRITORY BUT ALSO ON THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE.

THE IMPACTS ARE EXPECTED TO BE THE MOST PRONOUNCED IN THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF OUR NORTHERN EMPLOYMENT COMES FROM THE CITY AND MOST OF OUR NORTHERN SPENDING COMES FROM BUSINESSES THAT HAVE HEADQUARTERS IN THE CITY.

SO THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE ACTS AS A BIT OF A FLOW THROUGH AS WELL FOR A LOT OF OUR NORTHERN BUSINESSMEN.

AND THEN, OF COURSE THE LOSS OF TAX REVENUE, ROYALTIES, THAT KIND OF THING KIND OF COMPOUNDS.

SO I SHOULD SAY TOO.

SO THIS I KNOW SOME OF YOU HAVE SEEN THIS PRESENTATION A COUPLE OF TIMES, SO MY APOLOGIES FOR HAVING TO RE-EXPLAIN EVERYTHING.

BUT SO THIS AT THE TIME THAT THIS REPORT WAS MADE, THAT WAS WHEN EKATI WAS STILL CONSIDERING THE JAY PROJECT.

SO IN THIS SORT OF TIMEFRAME ON THE GRAPH, IT SHOWS DIAVIK CLOSING IN 2025, EKATI CLOSING IN 2027, GAHCHO KUÉ CLOSING IN 2028.

IF WE GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

IT GETS A BIT BUSY, BUT I'LL WALK EVERYBODY THROUGH THIS.

SO THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE ECONOMISTS MADE WHEN HE WAS DOING THIS WORK WAS THAT THERE WAS TWO BASE CASE SCENARIOS THAT COULD INFLUENCE WHAT THE IMPACTS OF DIAVIK'S CLOSURE WOULD HAVE ON YELLOWKNIFE AN THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES.

THE FIRST WOULD BE THAT EKATI WOULD PROCEED WITH THE JAY PROJECT AND STAY OPEN UNTIL 2028.

AND UNDER THAT BASE CASE SCENARIO, IT WOULD MEAN THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE IMPACTS FROM DIAVIK'S CLOSURE WOULD BE ABSORBED BY EKATI BRINGING ON THE JAY PROJECT SO OUR EMPLOYEES COULD SORT OF TRANSFER OVER THEIR BUSINESS, COULD TRANSFER OVER THERE, THAT SORT OF THING.

IT'S A GROSS GENERALIZATION, BUT THAT'S KIND OF THE IDEA.

THE SECOND BASE CASE SCENARIO IS THAT EKATI WOULD NOT PROCEED WITH THE JAY PROJECT AND THAT THEY WOULD CLOSE IN 2024.

SO IN THAT SENSE, THERE WOULD BE NOTHING FOR BUSINESSES OR EMPLOYEES TO TRANSFER OVER TO ONCE WE CLOSED, WHICH MEANS IT WOULD SORT OF START A BIT OF A SNOWBALL EFFECT AFTER OUR CLOSURE IN TERMS OF OUT MIGRATION, LOSS IN POPULATION LOSS IN TRANSFER PAYMENTS, THAT TYPE OF THING.

SO FAST FORWARD TO TODAY, WE KNOW FROM EKATI'S REGULATORY APPLICATIONS THAT THE JAY PROJECT HAS BASICALLY BEEN REMOVED AS OFF THE TABLE FOR THEM AND THEY'RE PROCEEDING HOPEFULLY OR THEY HOPE TO PROCEED WITH THE POINT LAKE PROJECT.

BUT IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT THE POINT LAKE PROJECT IS SEEN KIND OF MORE OF A STOPGAP MEASURE.

IT'S NOT THE SAME SCALE AS WHAT THE JAY PROJECT WOULD BE.

SO THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WE JUST ASK EVERYONE TO KEEP IN THE BACK OF THEIR MINDS WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING AT THESE NUMBERS, BECAUSE WE HAVE THESE ESTIMATES FROM THE ECONOMISTS WHEN THIS WORK WAS DONE BASED ON 2019 NUMBERS, BASED ON THESE TWO BASE CASE SCENARIOS THAT WE KNOW AREN'T REALLY REALISTIC BASE CASE SCENARIOS ANYMORE.

SO WHAT THIS IS REALLY TRYING TO SHOW IS THAT IF THERE'S OTHER MAJOR MINING PROJECTS COMING ON AROUND THE TIME THAT WE CLOSE, THE IMPACTS WILL BE ABSORBED. IF THERE'S OTHER MAJOR PROJECTS NOT COMING ON AROUND THE TIME THAT WE CLOSE, IT WILL BE MORE PROBLEMATIC.

[02:15:05]

SO THIS DID ALSO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION, YOU KNOW, IF NICO STARTS PRODUCTION, FORTUNE MINERALS, IT DOESN'T INCLUDE LIKE PINE POINT, RIGHT.

SO THERE WAS DIFFERENT THINGS HAPPENING AT THE TIME IN THE REGULATORY SYSTEM THAT WE COULDN'T SAY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER IN 2019 WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD GO AHEAD.

SO THIS IS JUST A SNAPSHOT IN TIME.

SO BASICALLY WE'RE LOOKING AT A POPULATION CHANGE THAT ECONOMISTS ESTIMATED THAT LOSS OF EMPLOYMENT, IF PEOPLE AREN'T ABLE TO FIND OTHER EMPLOYMENT WITHIN THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES OR IN ORDER TO STAY HERE, THAT THE NET LOSS WOULD BE AROUND 500 PEOPLE IN YELLOWKNIFE BY 2030. SO THAT'S BASED ON LIKE A LOT OF SNOWBALLING EFFECTS, RIGHT? IT'S BASED ON A DECISION MAKING FRAMEWORK ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL THAT'S HARD TO PREDICT BY ECONOMIC MODELING.

RIGHT? YOU KNOW, WHAT AGE ARE PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE LOSING THEIR EMPLOYMENT? ARE THEY ABLE TO RETIRE? DO THEY HAVE KIDS IN SCHOOL HERE? IS THERE SOMEONE ELSE WORKING IN THEIR FAMILY THAT WORKS FOR GOVERNMENT? WE CAN'T PREDICT ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

RIGHT. SO IT'S JUST TRYING TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT THE POTENTIAL IMPACTS COULD BE.

SORRY. LAST TIME WE WERE DOING THIS, PEOPLE WERE ASKING WHETHER OR NOT THAT NUMBER WAS EMPLOYEES AND IT'S NOT.

SO THAT'S A NUMBER THAT'S AN ESTIMATE BASED ON ECONOMIC MODELING OF INDUCED IMPACTS.

SO WITH X AMOUNT OF PEOPLE LOSING THEIR JOBS, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE 41 PEOPLE EMPLOYED IN YELLOWKNIFE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO WE KNOW THROUGH PEOPLE'S CONTRIBUTION TO THE ECONOMY HERE ARE CREATING JOBS, LOTS OF BUSINESSES WITH OUR CONTRACTS, THAT KIND OF THING.

SO IT'S REALLY LIKE IT'S A NUMBER THAT IS ESTIMATED FROM ALL THOSE INDUCED ECONOMIC IMPACTS.

WE ALSO HAD SOME QUESTIONS LAST TIME WE GAVE THIS PRESENTATION ABOUT WHAT EMPLOYMENT LOOKS LIKE IN SOME OF THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES WHO WE KNOW USE YELLOWKNIFE AS A BASE OR A CENTER AS WELL.

SO THE WAY THAT WE TRACK NUMBERS IS, IS BY OUR PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT GROUP, NOT SO MUCH BY COMMUNITY SPECIFICALLY, BUT WE CAN DISTILL THAT DOWN.

BUT THE ECONOMIST DID SOME WORK IN TERMS OF FIGURING OUT, ESTIMATING WHAT PEOPLE'S WHAT THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF SALARY WOULD BE BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE FROM EACH COMMUNITY WORKING AT THE MINE.

SO THAT'S THE KIND OF SALARY THAT'S GOING INTO THE COMMUNITY.

SO THE COMMUNITIES OBVIOUSLY HAVE THE HIGHEST PROPORTION OF THE WORKFORCE AT THE MINE OUT OF OUR FIVE PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT COMMUNITIES.

AND SO THE LOSS OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT AT THE MINE IS EXPECTED TO HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT ON BEHCHOKǪ̀ THE MAJORITY OF THOSE EMPLOYEES WHO LIVE IN BEHCHOKǪ̀.

AND BEHCHOKǪ̀ ACTUALLY HAS A HIGHER RATE OF EMPLOYMENT AT THE MINE PER CAPITA THAN EVEN YELLOWKNIFE DOES.

SO I THINK THAT OUR 6.9% OF BEHCHOKǪ̀ LABOR FORCE ARE EMPLOYED BY DDMI, WHICH IS VERY HIGH, AND THAT'S 5.5% OF THE TOTAL COMMUNITY'S INCOME.

SO IT'S PRETTY SIGNIFICANT.

SO BEHCHOKǪ̀ IS THE BIGGEST ONE, SO I'LL HIGHLIGHT THEM.

THE OTHER ONES WE HAVE LIKE LOWER NUMBERS OF PEOPLE FROM THOSE COMMUNITIES WORKING AT THE MINES.

SO THE IMPACTS WILL BE LOWER IN TERMS OF LOSS OF EMPLOYMENT.

YEAH. YEP.

OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

PLAYING MUSICAL CHAIRS A LITTLE BIT.

SO JUST SWITCHING GEARS HERE A LITTLE BIT.

SO THERE'S A FEW INITIATIVES THAT WE HAVE AS WE'RE PREPARING FOR CLOSURE, AND WE'LL GO OVER A COUPLE OF THEM THAT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN HERE.

SO TO START WITH IS RE-IMAGINING CLOSURE.

SO ALONG WITH DEBEERS AND GNWT, WE'VE STARTED THIS INITIATIVE TO KIND OF REIMAGINE WHAT CLOSURE MIGHT LOOK LIKE IN THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES, WHAT A MINE CLOSURE COULD LOOK LIKE AND LOOK FOR CREATIVE WAYS THAT WE CAN BENEFIT EMPLOYERS OR BENEFIT COMMUNITIES AND NORTHERNERS WITH THE MINE CLOSURE.

SO WE HAD A WORKSHOP IN DECEMBER.

AND THE OUTCOME OF THAT IS A PROPOSAL TO CANNOR TO FUND A FEASIBILITY STUDY ON POSSIBLE USAGE OF OUR SITE.

THERE IS MANY OPPORTUNITIES OPTIONS PUT OUT THERE.

YOU KNOW, A WELLNESS CAMP, ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

SO THE NEXT STEP IS A FEASIBILITY STUDY ON THAT WORK.

[02:20:03]

CAN MOVE TO THE NEXT ONE.

THIS ONE'S MY FAVORITE. I HAVE THE MOST INVOLVEMENT IN THIS ONE.

SO OUR EMPLOYEE SUPPORT PROGRAMS. SO OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GOING TO BE LAYING OFF A NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

AS WE GET CLOSER TO CLOSURE, IT WILL BE A PHASED APPROACH.

IT WON'T JUST BE ALL AT ONCE.

BUT WE HAVE CREATED THIS PROGRAM AND IT'S BASED ON SOME OTHER MINES THAT RIO TINTO HAS CLOSED AND SO WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO REFINE THE PROCESS A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT'S A GRADUAL, PHASED APPROACH FOR PEOPLE LEAVING THE MINE.

WHEN YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE GOING TO LEAVE, YOU GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND YOU I MEAN, WE'VE GOT OUR LITTLE PATHWAY THERE.

SO YOU START, YOU KNOW, YOU CREATE A PLAN, YOU CONSIDER WHAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO DO, AND THEN THIS PROGRAM WILL HELP YOU KIND OF WITH THOSE STEPS TO GET THERE.

SO WHAT WE MEAN BY THAT, YOU CAN SEE THE FIVE PATHWAYS AT THE TOP.

THOSE ARE ACTUALLY CALLED DESTINATIONS NOW.

SO YOU CAN REDEPLOY WITHIN RIO TINTO, YOU COULD HAVE A NEW CAREER IN THE NORTH.

MAYBE YOU WANT TO CHANGE FROM BEING A TRUCK DRIVER TO A CHEF.

AND SO OR MAYBE YOU WANT TO STICK WITH THE SAME JOB, BUT MAYBE AT ANOTHER MINE OR YOU WANT TO RETIRE, WHATEVER THOSE LOOK LIKE, EVERYBODY'S PATH IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. AND SO WELL WE HAVE A CONTRACTOR THAT WE'RE JUST KIND OF FINISHING UP GETTING THAT, YOU KNOW, SIGNING OUR AGREEMENTS WITH THEM TO GET THAT IN PLACE SO THAT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO COME TO THE MINE AND WORK WITH EACH EMPLOYEE ON THEIR PERSONAL PATH TO REDEPLOY OR.

WHATEVER THEIR GOAL IS IN THE END.

SO THIS COULD LOOK LIKE, WHERE DID I HAVE IT HERE.

I HAD A WHOLE BUNCH OF LISTS.

SO FOR SOME THAT COULD BE AS SIMPLE AS SMALL AS HELP WRITING A RESUME.

OR IT COULD BE AS LARGE AS A TRAINING COURSE IF YOU WANT TO BE A CHEF.

WE'RE GOING TO PUT YOU INTO A TRAINING COURSE TO BE A CHEF AND MAYBE GIVE YOU SOME TIME TO DO THAT.

SO THERE'S ALL SORTS OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE CAN DO WITH THIS.

AND THE HOPE IS THAT WE'RE NOT JUST WALKING AWAY AND LEAVING PEOPLE WITH NO PROSPECTS OR JUST LEAVING THE JOB MARKET TO KIND OF PICK UP FOR THE SLACK AS WE RAMP DOWN.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE GAINFULLY EMPLOYED OR WHATEVER THEIR CHOICE IS AS WE LEAVE.

BUT IT IS EMPLOYEE LED.

NO ONE HAS TO TAKE PART IN IT.

IT IS COMPLETELY UP TO THEM.

WE DID GIVE EVERYBODY A TIMELINE AND APOLOGIZE TO THOSE ONLINE.

WE DIDN'T HAVE IT INCLUDED IN THE ORIGINAL PACKAGE.

BUT THE BIG PIECES YOU'LL NOTE ON THERE IS UNDERGROUND.

WE START DECOMMISSIONING OUR FIRST UNDERGROUND PIPE LATER THIS YEAR AND SURFACE MINING ENDS AT THE BEGINNING OF NEXT YEAR.

SO THIS PROGRAM, IT'S JUST BEING LAUNCHED NOW AND IT'S THE FIRST GROUPS WILL START GOING THROUGH IT RELATIVELY QUICKLY.

WE SAY WE'RE CLOSING 25, BUT THAT'S STARTING NOW.

SO JUST SOMETHING TO POINT OUT.

I GUESS I HAD ANOTHER LITTLE CAVEAT HERE TO MENTION THAT THIS IS OUR MINE PLAN AS OF NOW.

IT CAN ALWAYS CHANGE AND IT OFTEN DOES.

[LAUGHTER] THAT'S IT FOR THAT ONE.

BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES.

SO. AFTER WE FINISH MINING PRODUCTION ENDS IN 25, WE'LL BEGIN A PERIOD OF MAKE SAFE AND THEN WE'LL MOVE INTO DEMOLITION OF THE SITE.

AND SO DURING YEARS PAST 25 WE'LL STILL NEED SOME CAMP SUPPORT AND SERVICES.

SO THERE WILL BE SOME BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES THERE.

AND THEN WE'LL ALSO THERE'S ALSO ALL SORTS OF ASSETS ON SITE THAT WE MAY BE ABLE TO REPURPOSE WITH DIFFERENT PARTNERS.

SO WE'RE BRINGING SOME PEOPLE UP IN SEPTEMBER, SOME COMMUNITY PARTNERS AND BUSINESS PARTNERS TO SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT THEY WOULD LIKE, THAT WE CAN WORK OUT SOME SORT OF AGREEMENT WITH WHOEVER AND REPURPOSE SOME OF THOSE ASSETS SO THAT WE'RE NOT PUTTING THEM IN THE LANDFILL OR WHATEVER THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE.

SO IT'S ANOTHER BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY.

THERE'S A NUMBER OF RFPS OUT FOR VARIOUS PIECES OF CLOSURE.

THAT'S ALL STARTING NOW, AND IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

AND THEN IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES, BUT THERE WILL BE, YOU KNOW, I GUESS IT IS THERE'S A PERIOD OF POST CLOSURE, MONITORING AND MAINTENANCE THAT WILL GO WE'RE NOT SURE HOW LONG IT, BUT IT'S GOING TO GO FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AFTER ALL OF THIS.

AND THAT WILL BE WITH WITH A NORTHERN PARTNER THAT WILL SUPPORT US WITH THAT.

THAT'S IT. NEXT UP, AMANDA.

OKAY. SO WE'RE DOING SESSIONS LIKE THIS IN ALL OF OUR WE'RE TRYING TO WITH ALL OF OUR PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT COMMUNITIES.

[02:25:06]

SO WE'RE HOPING TO WRAP UP THIS WORK BY THE FALL AND WE'LL PRESENT BACK TO THE CITY OF YELLOWKNIFE THE SAME WAY THAT WE WOULD WITH ALL OF THE OTHER COMMUNITIES.

SO KIND OF COMPILING WHAT WE HEARD AND IN PROVIDING SOME FEEDBACK OR OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE MORE FEEDBACK OR VERIFICATION IN THAT BEFORE IT GOES INTO A FINAL REPORT.

AND THEN THE OUTCOME OF THAT WOULD BE ESSENTIALLY A SOCIOECONOMIC MITIGATION PLAN THAT WE WOULD TAKE FORWARD WITHIN RIO TINTO FOR ACTIONING AS WE MOVE INTO CLOSURE.

SO THE SLIDES AND EVERYTHING, THAT I SHOWED YOU FROM THE ECONOMISTS, THAT WAS KIND OF THE FIRST STEP IN THIS TYPE OF WORK.

AND THIS WORK THAT WE'RE DOING NOW IS REALLY KIND OF TAKING THAT BACK TO COMMUNITIES AND SAYING, YOU KNOW, DOES THIS SOUND RIGHT? DOES THIS RESONATE WITH YOU? IS WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT? YOU KNOW, ARE WE ON THE MARK OR NOT? SO REALLY TRYING TO GET THAT COMMUNITY LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING AND ENGAGEMENT AS WE MOVE INTO CLOSURE.

THANK YOU. AND YEAH, THANKS FOR THE PRESENTATION.

AND I KNOW WHEN WE WE MET BEFORE THE MAYOR'S TASK FORCE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, I THINK ONE OF THE MEMBERS FROM THE PUBLIC KIND OF IT'S NOT A TIME TO PANIC HEARING THESE NUMBERS AND IT DOES FEEL LIKE IT.

WELL, IT IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER, BUT I THINK IT'S A PRETTY BIG EYES WIDE OPEN THAT WE DO NEED THE DIVERSITY OF ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES UP HERE IN THE NORTH.

JUST A QUICK QUESTION, THEN I'LL OPEN IT UP TO COUNCIL.

WE WILL POST THIS ONLINE.

WE ALWAYS HAVE THAT STUFF ON YOUR SLIDE HERE.

IS IT BASICALLY LIKE BY 2028, EVERYTHING COULD BE WRAPPED UP AND THEN IT'S JUST IN THE THE MONITORING PHASE, IS THAT CORRECT? ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, RECOGNIZING THE PLAN CAN CHANGE DAY BY DAY.

YEAH, FOR SURE. SO OUR SITE PRESENTS POST 2025.

LIKE WHEN WE'RE IN THE MONITORING PHASE OR THE DEMOLITION PHASE AND MONITORING PHASE, IT'S REALLY JUST IT'S JUST RESULTS BASED, RIGHT? SO IF DEMOLITION GOES AS PLANNED AND WE CAN DECOMMISSION AND DO THE AMOUNT OF RESTORATION THAT WE'RE EXPECTED TO DO BY THAT POINT.

SO IT'S ANTICIPATED BY 2028, YOU KNOW, THAT WILL BE DONE THE BULK OF OUR RECLAMATION BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT PROGRESSIVELY, BASICALLY SINCE THE MINE STARTED.

SO WE'VE BEEN RECLAIMING AREAS AS WE FINISHED MINING THEM.

SO WE'RE NOT SORT OF STARTING FROM SCRATCH WITH RECLAMATION.

SO BY 2028, IF THAT KIND OF GOES AS PLANNED, THEN THE BULK OF THAT WORK WILL BE DONE.

SO THERE WON'T BE LIKE AN ACTIVE SITE PRESENCE NECESSARY.

THAT WOULD BE MORE LIKE GOING UP ONCE A YEAR FOR THE NEXT LIKE 50 YEARS AND MONITORING TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT WE'VE DONE IS IS STILL WORKING WELL AND THAT THE ENVIRONMENT IS RESPONDING THE WAY THAT WE ANTICIPATED.

BUT THAT'S BASED ON ALL THE MONITORING RESULTS.

SO IF BY 2028, IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT READY TO BREACH THE PITS WITH LAC DE GRAS BECAUSE THE WATER QUALITY ISN'T WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE.

THEN, THAT WOULD BE EXTENDED.

THANK YOU. QUESTIONS? COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. WELL, NOT A QUESTION.

THE PRESENTATION WAS QUITE CLEAR AND THANK YOU FOR IT.

I THINK IT'S JUST GREAT TO GET THIS INFORMATION OUT THERE AND TO THE PUBLIC.

I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE INTENTION BEHIND ALL OF THIS.

YOU KNOW, I JUST WANTED TO SINCE YOU'RE HERE, JUST TAKE A MOMENT AS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER MYSELF, I CAN ATTEST TO JUST THE GREAT SUPPORT THAT DIAVIK DIAMOND MINES HAS HAD FOR SMALL BUSINESSES ACROSS YELLOWKNIFE FOR DECADES NOW.

IT'S REALLY AMAZING.

I THINK EVEN TO THIS DAY, IF I LOOK AT MY BOARD BACK AT THE OFFICE, I'VE PROBABLY GOT FOUR OR FIVE, YOU KNOW, PURCHASE ORDERS OUTSTANDING FOR DIAVIK DIAMOND MINE.

SO JUST WHAT YOU HAVE DONE FOR OUR COMMUNITY AND FOR OUR SMALL BUSINESS COMMUNITY, PARTICULARLY WHILE GEEZ, OUR RESIDENTS, WE SAW SOME OF THE RESIDENTS NUMBERS UP THERE.

SO YEAH, THIS IS GOING TO BE A BIG DEAL FOR THE NORTH AND WE REALLY CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME ALONG FOR THE RIDE WHEN IT WAS THERE.

[LAUGHTER] BUT YEAH, GOING TO BE CERTAINLY A SAD TIME AND HOPEFULLY THERE'LL BE MORE EXPLORATION AND MORE OPPORTUNITIES IN THE FUTURE.

SO ENCOURAGING THAT.

BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION AND AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING OUR COMMUNITY.

THANK YOU. YEAH. AND I APPRECIATE THE EXTRA INFORMATION ABOUT BEHCHOKǪ̀ IS A BEDROOM COMMUNITY THAT SUPPORTS SO MANY OF OUR SMALL COMMUNITIES THAT 6% OF THEIR WORKFORCE, OR

[02:30:04]

COUNCILLOR MUFANDAEDZA.

WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE PRESENTATION AND ALL THE INFORMATION THAT YOU SHARED.

I KNOW IT'S NOT CAUSE FOR US TO PANIC, BUT TO START PREPARING OURSELVES.

AND YEAH, VERY USEFUL INFORMATION AND SEEING HOW YOU GUYS HAVE SUPPORTED THE VARIOUS COMMUNITIES AND LIKE WHAT MAYOR ALTY SAID, THE POPULATION IN BEHCHOKǪ̀ THAT'S PRETTY AMAZING. SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, I KNOW YOU TALKED ABOUT THE SUPPORT YOU'RE PROVIDING TO YOUR STAFF AND YOU TALKED ABOUT REDEPLOYMENT.

WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? CHERISH OR AMANDA. IN TERMS OF THE NORTH? SO IN TERMS OF LIKE WHEN YOU GUYS SAY YOU ARE ALSO CONSIDERING SOME REDEPLOYMENT, ARE YOU THINKING ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BE REDEPLOYED TO OTHER MINES WITHIN CANADA? LIKE, WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS HAVE IN MIND FOR THAT? SO, I MEAN, RIO TINTO IS AN INTERNATIONAL COMPANY.

WE DO HAVE A NUMBER OF SITES ACROSS CANADA SO THAT I THINK PEOPLE'S PREFERENCE THERE WAS WE DID AN EMPLOYEE SURVEY AND I THINK IT WAS AROUND 60% CONSIDERED REDEPLOYMENT AN OPTION.

SO THAT WOULD BE WITHIN OTHER SITES IN CANADA OR ACROSS THE WORLD.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T HAVE ANOTHER SITE IN THE NORTH, SO IT WOULD MEAN LEAVING THE NORTH IF THAT IS THEIR PREFERENCE.

AND SO, LIKE I SAID, IT IS EMPLOYEE LED.

SO IF IF THEY DO WANT TO MOVE TO ANOTHER ASSET WITHIN CANADA OR AROUND THE WORLD, THEY WOULD LET US KNOW THAT AND WE WOULD SUPPORT THAT.

SO AS OF NOW, THERE AREN'T ANY PREFERENCES TO KIND OF SUGGESTING TO PEOPLE THAT THEY STAY IN THE NORTH BECAUSE IT IS THEIR PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

SOMETHING TO NOTE, THOUGH, THAT SOME OF THE SKILLS ARE NOT REALLY TRANSFERABLE TO OTHER ASSETS.

YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GO WORK IN A PORT IF YOU'RE AN UNDERGROUND TRUCK DRIVER.

AND MOST OF OUR ASSETS ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE UNDERGROUND MINES.

SO SOME OF THOSE SKILLS WON'T BE TRANSFERABLE.

AND THOSE PEOPLE WOULD ACTUALLY, IF THEY WANTED TO CONTINUE THE SAME JOBS, WOULD BE BETTER OFF TO STAY IN THE NORTH AND WORK AT ANOTHER MINE.

BUT IT IS EMPLOYEE LED SO IT'S YEAH IT MAY END UP MEANING MORE PEOPLE LEAVING THE NORTH.

YEAH. THANK YOU. SAD TO NOTE MORE PEOPLE LEAVING THE NORTH, BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING FOR YOUR STAFF.

AND THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION.

THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, DISCUSSION? COUNCILLOR SILVERIO.

THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

I JUST THE SAME WITH THE COUNCIL WILLIAMS, I JUST WANT TO THANK THE PRESENTATION.

AND TO THINK THAT WHEN I MOVED TO CANADA, I WAS EMPLOYED IN THE MINES.

THAT WAS MY FIRST JOB AND IT REALLY GAVE US A GOOD HELP WHEN WE WERE STARTING HERE.

SO THE EFFECTS OF THIS IS REALLY GOOD IN THE COMMUNITY AND GIVING ALL THIS LIKE A HEADS UP, PEOPLE CAN START, YOU KNOW, LOOKING FOR THE FUTURE, WHAT'S IT GOING TO BE LOOK LIKE.

BUT I THINK WE'RE STILL OPTIMISTIC THAT SOMETHING WILL COME UP.

THANK YOU. THANK YOU.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR COMING TODAY AND LEARNING ABOUT MILL RATES.

FEEL FREE TO SHARE THAT INFORMATION WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

NEXT ON OUR AGENDA, WE HAVE A MEMORANDUM REGARDING WHETHER TO ACQUIRE FEE SIMPLE TITLE OF ALL UN‐SURVEYED ROAD AND LANE COMMISSIONERS LAND PARCELS AND WHETHER TO ACQUIRE A FEE.

[7. A memorandum regarding whether to acquire fee simple title of all un‐surveyed road and lane Commissioner’s Land parcels, and whether to acquire fee simple title of a water lot in Quad 85 J/8‐Territorial Land parcels.]

AND I WILL NOTE THAT THE COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS IS AWAY RIGHT NOW AND WHEN HE COMES BACK HE CAN GRAB HIS COMPUTER AND EXCUSE HIMSELF BECAUSE THE DISCLOSURE.

OH, THERE WE GO. THERE WE GO.

WELL GRAB YOUR COMPUTER AND THEN I'LL PASS IT OVER TO YOU, MS. BASSI-KELLETT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR.

SO THE CITY CONTINUES TO PRESENT AND TO SEEK THE TRANSFER OF VACANT UNOCCUPIED COMMISSIONERS LAND FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF LANDS SO THAT WE CAN HAVE CONTROL OF THOSE LANDS THAT ARE WITHIN OUR CITY BOUNDARY.

THIS HAS BEEN A LONGSTANDING PRIORITY AND IT'S ONE THAT WE CONTINUE TO BE PUSHING FOR.

WE'VE STARTED DOING THIS PROCESS CONCURRENT TO DEVELOPING AN MOU THAT LAYS OUT OUR ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF LANDS.

BUT WE ARE PUSHING FOR THE TRANSFER OF LANDS RIGHT NOW, AND WE'VE BEEN STARTING WITH SOME OF THE EASY ASKS LANDS, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE SURVEYED ROADS ARE LOCATED

[02:35:08]

WE HAVE ASKED FOR THOSE.

WE'RE ASKING FOR COMMISSIONERS LAND WHERE THERE IS MUNICIPAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

SO WE'RE NOW LOOKING AT SOME OF THAT LOW HANGING FRUIT SO THAT WE CAN START TO EASE THE PROCESS.

WE HAVE ROADS ALREADY THAT ARE SURVEYED THAT WE'VE ASKED FOR.

WE ARE NOW LOOKING FOR UN‐SURVEYED ROADS SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE GET OWNERSHIP OF THESE MUNICIPAL ASSETS WITHIN OUR FULL CONTROL. SO WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS GOING ONWARD.

THE MOU WILL LAY OUT THE PROCESS BECAUSE HONESTLY, THE REASON WE GOT INTO THIS IS TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE ABLE TO GET CONTROL OF LAND FOR DEVELOPMENT, NOT JUST THE OWNERSHIP.

WE WANT DEVELOPMENT TO BE ABLE TO HAPPEN, BUT WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THE PROCESS WITH SOME OF THESE SMALLER ASKS TO START.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? DISCUSSION FROM COUNCIL? SEEING AND HEARING NONE.

WE WILL BRING THIS FORWARD TO COUNCIL ON MONDAY, MAY 9TH AT 7 P.M..

AND THE FINAL ITEM WE WILL WALK ON TO THE AGENDA TONIGHT AS WELL IS A MEMORANDUM REGARDING WHETHER TO APPOINT SNEHASIS DIRGHANGI AS A BY-LAW

[8. A memorandum regarding whether to appoint Snehasis Dirghangi as a By‐law Officer for the City of Yellowknife.]

QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? DISCUSSION? SEEING NONE THIS WILL COME FORWARD TONIGHT AT 7 P.M..

WITH THAT, IF I CAN GET A MOTION TO ADJOURN.

MOVED BY COUNCILLOR SILVERIO SECONDED BY COUNCILLOR MUFANDAEDZA.

ANYBODY OPPOSED? HEARING NONE.

SEE EVERYBODY AT 7 P.M..

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.