>> WE ARE JUST MOVING RIGHT INTO GPC. [1. Councillor Mufandaedza will read the Opening Statement.] [00:00:03] >> OKAY. WE WILL CALL GOVERNANCE AND PRIORITIES COMMITTEE MEETING FOR TUESDAY, APRIL 6TH, 2021 TO ORDER. AS ACKNOWLEDGED BY COUNCILLOR MUFANDAEDZA, THE LAND ACKNOWLEDGMENTS. NEXT, WE HAVE APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA. ANYTHING FURTHER DONE, MS. BASSI-KELLETT? >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR. NO, NOTHING ELSE TO ADD. >> THANK YOU. NEXT, WE HAVE DISCLOSURE, PECUNIARY INTERESTS AND THE GENERAL NATURE THEREOF. DOES ANY MEMBER HAVE A PECUNIARY INTEREST TODAY? SEEING NONE. NEXT, WE HAVE A PRESENTATION AND DISCUSSION REGARDING MILL RATE RATIOS. MS. BASSI-KELLETT. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR. MEMBERS OF COUNCIL HAVE EXPRESSED SOME CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS [2. Does any Member have a pecuniary interest in any matter before Council tonight?] WITH THE PROPORTIONAL RATIO OF MILL RATES BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY CLASSES. [Items 3 & 4] ADMINISTRATION HAS PRESENTED THIS INFORMATION IN THE PAST AND REALLY APPRECIATES THAT COUNCIL HAS AN INTEREST NOW, TO UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE HOW IT IS THAT MILL RATE RATIOS APPLY, PARTICULARLY IN THESE ECONOMICALLY CHALLENGING TIMES. TODAY WE WILL PRESENT ON MILL RATES AND HOW THEY IMPACT PROPERTY TAXES. BEFORE ADMINISTRATION COMES FORWARD WITH THE FINAL 2021 TAX RATES, WHICH WE EXPECT TO DO LATER IN APRIL, I WILL TURN THINGS OVER TO MISS WOODWARD, OUR EXPERT ON THIS, WHO WILL SPEAK TO THE PRESENTATION THAT'S IN THE GPC PACKAGE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU MS. BASSI-KELLETT. I'M HERE OBVIOUSLY TODAY TO PROVIDE YOU WITH YOUR OPPORTUNITY FOR YOUR OFF REQUESTED PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW MILL RATES ARE USED IN YELLOWKNIFE TO DISTRIBUTE PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY AMONG THE OWNERS OF VARIOUS TYPES OF PROPERTIES. I'LL START BY PROVIDING SOME INFORMATION TO INFORM YOUR DISCUSSION, INCLUDING BACKGROUND ON THE CITY'S MILL RATES AND HOW THEY HAVE HISTORICALLY DISTRIBUTED PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY. THEN PRESENT SOME CONSIDERATIONS AROUND TAX BURDENS IN GENERAL. IDEALLY, THIS WILL ENCOURAGE QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION AND LEAD COUNCIL TO PROVIDING ADMINISTRATION WITH DIRECTION FOR THE 2021 MILL RATES. WHILE IT'S STILL TOO EARLY IN THE CYCLE TO TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC 2021 MILL RATES, BEFORE ADMINISTRATION CONSCIOUS THOSE FINAL NUMBERS, WE ARE AGAIN SEEKING COUNCIL INPUT ON HOW YOU BELIEVE THE PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD BE DISTRIBUTED AMONG THE DIFFERENT PROPERTY CLASSES FOR 2021. JUST TO BACKUP BRIEFLY, AS COMMITTEE WILL RECALL, WHEN THE BUDGET IS APPROVED, THE DOCUMENT IMPLICITLY DEFINES THE PROGRAMS AND SERVICES THAT WILL BE PROVIDED IN THE COMING YEAR AND THE COSTS OR EXPENDITURES THAT WILL BE ENCOURAGED TO PROVIDE THEM. BECAUSE THE CITY HAS TO DELIVER A BALANCED BUDGET, THE CITY MUST FIND REVENUES TO MATCH THOSE EXPENDITURES. TYPICALLY, AS YOU'LL RECALL, MOST OF THE CITY'S REVENUES COME FROM USER CHARGES, GOVERNMENT GRANTS, AND PROPERTY TAXATION. IN 2021, ABOUT 39 PERCENT OF OVERALL REVENUES ARE EXPECTED TO COME DIRECTLY FROM RIGHT PAIRS IN THE FORM OF PROPERTY TAXES. TODAY'S FOCUS IS TO DETERMINE HOW COUNCIL BELIEVES THIS RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD BE DISTRIBUTED AMONG THE OWNERS OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF PROPERTY. BECAUSE AS COMMITTEE IS AWARE, NOT ALL PROPERTIES ARE USED FOR THE SAME PURPOSES. SOME PROVIDE HOUSING, SOME MAY BE PLACES OF BUSINESS, SOME MAY BE USED FOR INDUSTRY. FOR TAXATION PURPOSES, THESE DIFFERENT PROPERTY USES CAN BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY WHEN IT COMES TO ASSIGNING PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITIES. THE PROPERTY ASSESSMENT AND TAXATION ACT ACKNOWLEDGES THIS VARIETY AND GROUNDS COUNCIL THE AUTHORITY TO ESTABLISH PROPERTY TAXES TO REFLECT THE DIFFERENT WAYS IN WHICH PROPERTIES IN YELLOWKNIFE ARE USED. IT GIVES THE ASSESSOR THE AUTHORITY TO ASSIGN THE APPROPRIATE PROPERTY CLASS TO EACH PROPERTY BASED ON IT'S PREDOMINANT USE. IN 1994, THE COUNCIL OF THE DAY ADOPTED THE PROPERTY CLASSIFICATION BY-LAW, WHICH ESTABLISHED THESE FIVE CLASSES. IN 1999, THE BY-LAW WAS AMENDED TO ADD THE AGRICULTURAL CLASS. TODAY, THESE CLASSES ARE DEFINED IN THE TAX ADMINISTRATION BY-LAW. TO REFLECT A COMMUNITY'S PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEFS ABOUT HOW PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD BE DISTRIBUTED AMONG OWNERS OF DIFFERENT PROPERTY TYPES. EACH PROPERTY CLASS CAN HAVE IT'S OWN MILL RATE. PROVIDED, OF COURSE, THAT WHEN THE MILL RATES ARE APPLIED TO THE ASSOCIATED ASSESSED VALUES, THEY GENERATE THE REQUIRED AMOUNT OF PROPERTY TAXATION REVENUE. [00:05:03] EACH YEAR, THE MILL RATES ARE REFLECTED IN A MUNICIPAL TAX LEVY BY-LAW. THE MOST RECENT IS BY-LAW NUMBER 5019, WHICH RECEIVED THREE READINGS FROM COUNCIL LAST JUNE. IT IS THE SOURCE OF THE NUMBERS ON THIS SLIDE. HOWEVER, THESE SPECIFIC MILL RATES AREN'T SIGNIFICANT IN AND OF THEMSELVES. AS THE NUMBERS WILL VARY FROM YEAR TO YEAR, DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE ASSESSMENT BASE AND THE AMOUNT OF TAXATION REVENUE REQUIRED. AS LONG AS THE MILL RATES ARE APPLIED TO THE ASSESS VALUES TO GENERATE SUFFICIENT TAXATION REVENUE, THE CONSIDERATIONS REMAIN MATHEMATICAL. WHAT TENDS TO GARNER ATTENTION AND MOVE THE DISCUSSIONS AND CONSIDERATIONS INTO THE PHILOSOPHICAL ARENA IS HOW THE RATES DIFFER AMONG CLASSES. BECAUSE THIS REFLECTS HOW THE PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY IS ASSIGNED ACROSS THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF PROPERTIES. IN THIS PHILOSOPHICAL REALM, THE TENSION TYPICALLY FOCUSES ON THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SHARE OF RESPONSIBILITY SHOULDERED BY OWNERS OF RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES RELATIVE TO THAT BORN LIKE OWNERS OF NON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES. THERE ARE TWO TYPICAL LENSES FOR EXAMINING THIS DISTRIBUTION. THE ASSESSMENT TAXATION LENS AND THE MILL RATE RATIO LENS. THE ASSESSMENT TAXATION LENS LOOKS AT HOW MUCH OF THE ASSESSMENT BASE IS MADE UP OF RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES VERSUS HOW MUCH IS MADE UP OF NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. IT ALSO LOOKS AT HOW MUCH OF THE TOTAL TAXATION REVENUE IS CONTRIBUTED BY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS COMPARED TO THAT CONTRIBUTED BY NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS. IN THIS CONTEXT, RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES CONSISTS OF THOSE IN THE RESIDENTIAL, MULTI RESIDENTIAL, AND AGRICULTURAL CLASSES. WHILE NON RESIDENTIAL ENCOMPASSES ALL OF THE OTHER CLASSES. IN THIS CONTEXT, IF WE LOOK AT THE HISTORICAL PERCENTAGES WHICH COMMITTEE HAS SEEN BEFORE, WE SEE THAT RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, THE BLACK LINE, NOW COMPRISE ABOUT 61.5 PERCENT OF THE TOTAL ASSESSMENT BASE. THAT'S DOWN SLIGHTLY FROM THE 63-64 PERCENT WE SAW IN RECENT YEARS, BUT UP FROM JUST SHY OF 55 PERCENT IN THE YEAR 2000. CONVERSELY, NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, THE BLUE LINE, NOW ACCOUNT FOR JUST UNDER 39 PERCENT OF THE TOTAL ASSESSMENT DAYS, DOWN FROM ABOUT 45 PERCENT IN 2000. WHEN WE ADD IN THE HISTORICAL PROPERTY TAX CONTRIBUTIONS, THE DOTTED LINES, WE SEE THAT THEY MOVE IN HARMONY WITH THE ASSESSMENT PERCENTAGES. THE SECOND COMPARATIVE LENSES, THE MILL RATE RATIO, IS A SIMPLE MATHEMATICAL CALCULATION THAT DIVIDES THE COMMERCIAL MILL RATE OR THE MIS RESIDENTIAL MILL RATE. IT DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ANY OF THE OTHER MILL RATES ASSIGNED TO OTHER CLASSES, NOR DOES IT CONSIDER THE COMPOSITION OF THE CITY'S ASSESSMENT BASE OR THE PROPORTION OF TAXES PAID BY OWNERS OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF PROPERTIES. LOOKING BACK TWO DECADES, IN 2000, THE MATHEMATICAL EXERCISE OF DIVIDING THE COMMERCIAL MILL RATE BY THE RESIDENTIAL MILL RATE RESULTED IN A RATIO OF 1.76. THERE WERE VERY MINOR FLUCTUATIONS IN THAT CALCULATED NUMBER BETWEEN 2000-2006. IN 2007, THE CALCULATED RATIO WORKED OUT TO 1.83, REFLECTING MILL RATE ADJUSTMENTS MADE BY THE COUNCIL OF THE DAY TO REFLECT THE IMPACTS OF THE 2006 GENERAL ASSESSMENT. THE RATIO REMAINED UNCHANGED UNTIL 2014, WHEN THE CALCULATION YIELDED A RESULT OF 2.13. AGAIN, REFLECTING ADJUSTMENTS MADE IN LIGHT OF PRIOR YEARS GENERAL ASSESSMENT. THE RATIO CHANGED MOST RECENTLY IN 2019, ONCE AGAIN, DUE TO ASSESSMENT SHIFTS RESULTING FROM THE 2018 GENERAL ASSESSMENT. WHEN WE LOOK AT HOW THIS RATIO IS REFLECTED IN THE SHARE OF PROPERTY TAX CONTRIBUTIONS ASSIGNED TO RESIDENTIAL RATE PAYERS COMPARED TO THAT ASSIGNED TO NON-RESIDENTIAL RATE PAYERS, WE SEE THAT THE PROPORTION OF TAXES CONTRIBUTED BY THE TWO GROUPS HAS REMAINED RELATIVELY STABLE OVER THE PAST TWO DECADES. THIS IS BECAUSE THE CHANGES IN THE RATIO REFLECT ADJUSTMENTS MADE TO SUSTAIN THAT CONSISTENT CONTRIBUTION SHARE. WHEN THE RATIO WENT FROM 1.76-1.83 IN 2007, [00:10:05] IT REFLECTED THE FACT THAT NO RATES WERE SET TO MAINTAIN THE COMMERCIAL SHARE OF PROPERTY TAXES AT EXACTLY THE SAME PERCENTAGE THAT IT WAS THE PREVIOUS YEAR. THE 2.13 RATIO IN 2014 ACTUALLY REFLECTED A SLIGHT DROP IN THE COMMERCIAL SHARE OF TAXES. IN 2019, THE 2.26 RATIO REFLECTED A SLIGHT INCREASE IN THE PORTION OF TAXES CONTRIBUTED BY COMMERCIAL OR NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS, MOSTLY DUE TO THE IMPACT OF THE NEW HOSPITAL. THIS CONSISTENCY IN PROPERTY TAX SHARE IS BECAUSE IN THE ABSENCE OF SPECIFIC DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL, ADMINISTRATION DEVELOPS AND RECOMMENDS MILL RATES, BUT MORE OR LESS, MAINTAIN THE RELATIVE PROPERTY TAX CONTRIBUTIONS FROM RESIDENTIAL AND NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS, AND MAINTAIN STABILITY IN INDIVIDUAL TAXPAYER BILLS. THAT'S THE HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE. THE CITY'S TRADITIONAL APPROACH TO MILL RATES IS THEN IN THE ABSENCE OF SPECIFIC DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL, ADMINISTRATION TAKES A MATHEMATICAL APPROACH THAT FACTORS IN ANY MAJOR SHIFTS IN THE ASSESSMENT PHASE AND PROPOSES MILL RATES THAT MAINTAIN A FAIRLY CONSTANT DISTRIBUTION OF PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY AND PROVIDE PREDICTABILITY IN PROPERTY TAX BILLS. ONCE THE MILL RATES ARE CALCULATED, ADMINISTRATION BRINGS THEM FORWARD FOR COUNCIL CONSIDERATION AND THE PROCEDURAL OR LEGISLATIVE STEP OF APPROVING THE RATES BY ADOPTING THE ASSOCIATED BY-LAW. WHAT HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN UNDERSTATED IS THE PHILOSOPHICAL COMPONENT, THE POLITICAL STAMP, AS TO HOW PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITIES SHOULD BE DISTRIBUTED AMONG THE OWNERS OF VARIOUS TYPES OF PROPERTIES. IN RECENT YEARS, COUNCIL HAS REQUESTED OPPORTUNITIES FOR PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSIONS AND THESE HAVE BEEN PROVIDED BUT WITH LIMITED IMPACT. THIS YEAR, ADMINISTRATION IS ONCE AGAIN COMING FORWARD IN ADVANCE OF DEVELOPING THE MILL RATES TO GIVE ELECTED OFFICIALS THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THIS IMPORTANT PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION SO THAT THE 2021 MILL RATES REFLECT COUNCIL'S VIEW ON HOW THE PROPERTY TAXATION RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD BE DISTRIBUTED AMONG PROPERTY OWNERS. THESE CONSIDERATIONS TRULY BELONG IN THE POLITICAL REALM AND THEY MUST COME FROM AND BE SUPPORTED BY COUNCIL. HOW DO YOU START LOOKING AT THIS FROM THE POLITICAL OR PHILOSOPHICAL ANGLE? WELL, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE PROPERTY TAX REVENUE REQUIREMENTS HAVE TO BE MET. IF THIS CIRCLE REPRESENTS THE TAXATION DOLLARS REQUIRED TO PROVIDE THE PROGRAMS AND SERVICES INHERENT IN BUDGET 2021, COUNCIL CANNOT DECIDE TO ALLOCATE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT REVENUE AS IT FIT. YOU COULD PRESERVE THE DISTRIBUTION FROM 2020, WHICH SAW RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS CONTRIBUTE ABOUT 42 PERCENT OF THE TOTAL TAXATION REVENUE, WITH THE REMAINING 58 PERCENT COMING FROM NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS. OR COUNCIL COULD DIRECT ADMINISTRATION TO FLIP THIS SO THAT RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS PAY MORE. OR COUNCIL COULD DECIDE TO SPLIT THE RESPONSIBILITY RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OR DISTRIBUTE THE TAX RESPONSIBILITY IN SOME OTHER WAY. JUST AS LONG AS THE ALLOTMENT GENERATES THE REQUIRED REVENUE, IT'S ALL MATHEMATICALLY POSSIBLE. WHAT COUNCIL HAS TO CONSIDER IS THE PHILOSOPHICAL OR POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE. WHAT CONTRIBUTES TO THAT PERSPECTIVE? WHAT THINGS SHOULD COUNCIL CONSIDER IN DECIDING HOW TO DISTRIBUTE PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY? THERE'S A LOT OF THEORY AND A LOT OF LITERATURE OUT THERE, BUT NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL ANSWERS. HERE ARE SOME SUGGESTIONS. COUNCIL OFTEN LOOKS TO WHAT IS GOING ON IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS. ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS IN RECENT YEARS, ADMINISTRATION HAS PROVIDED COMPARATIVE INFORMATION FROM OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, MOSTLY WITHIN ALBERTA, WITH THE GENERAL TAKEAWAY BEING THAT THE CITY'S MILL RATE RATIO AND PROPERTY TAX PERCENTAGES ARE IN LINE WITH MUNICIPALITIES IN THAT PROVINCE. FROM A BROADER PERSPECTIVE, IN OCTOBER 2020, THE CANADIAN PROPERTY TAX BENCHMARK REPORT REVEALED THAT IN EIGHT OF CANADA'S 11 MAJOR POPULATION CENTERS, COMMERCIAL TAX RATES ARE AT LEAST DOUBLE THAT APPLIED TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES. IN TORONTO AND QUEBEC, THAT RATIO EXCEEDED THREE, AND IN MONTREAL IT WAS 4.1. [00:15:05] THE NATIONWIDE BENCHMARK REPORT PREPARED BY THE ALTUS GROUP LAST YEAR, DETERMINED THAT THE AVERAGE RATIO ACROSS MAJOR URBAN CENTERS IN CANADA, IS 2.652. ARE THESE COMPARABLE S REALISTIC? ARE THEY USEFUL? YELLOWKNIFE IS OBVIOUSLY VERY DIFFERENT FROM PLACES LIKE TORONTO AND MONTREAL. BUT EVEN WITHIN A SMALL GEOGRAPHIC AREA, DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITIES HAVE DIFFERENT COMPOSITIONS, MEANING DIFFERENT POLITICAL PRIORITIES. FOR EXAMPLE, EVEN THOUGH THEY REPRESENT SIMILARLY SIZED POPULATION BASIS, ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THE DUKE, ALBERTA, THEY LIKELY PLACE A DIFFERENT EMPHASIS ON COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL OPERATIONS, THAN DO THEIR COUNTERPARTS IN A BEDROOM COMMUNITY LIKE OCHA TALKS, AND THIS IS REFLECTED IN THEIR MILL RATE RATIOS. IN 2018, THE DUKE'S RATIO WAS 1.2, WHILE ALTUS WAS 2.05. NOW IT IS THESE PRIORITIES THAT FORM THE FUNDAMENTAL PHILOSOPHICAL BASIS FOR A GIVEN COUNCIL'S PRIORITIES. COUNCILS THAT WANT TO BE SEEN SUPPORTIVE OF BUSINESS IN ORDER TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN BUSINESSES AND GROW THE CITY'S ECONOMY MAY CREATE A SITUATION WHERE OWNERS OF NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES CONTRIBUTE LESS TO PROPERTY TAXATION REVENUES. OBVIOUSLY, IT CAN BE ARGUED THAT LOWER COMMERCIAL PROPERTY TAXES HELPED MAKE CITIES COMPETITIVE AND PROMOTE JOB GROWTH AND INVESTMENT. ON THE OTHER HAND, COUNCILS THAT WANT TO BE SEEN AS DOING WHAT THEY CAN TO COUNTERACT THE HIGH COST OF LIVING, AND THAT'S ATTRACT AND RETAIN RESIDENCES AND WORKFORCES, MAY FEEL PRESSURE TO LOWER THE PORTION OF PROPERTY TAXES CONTRIBUTED BY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS. AN OPTION THAT CAN BE EVEN MORE ATTRACTIVE WHEN ONE CONSIDERS THAT RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS REPRESENT A MUCH LARGER NUMBER OF VOTERS THAN THE NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS. THERE'S ALSO THE QUESTION OF CONSISTENCY OR PREDICTABILITY. FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN COUNCIL APPROVED BUDGET 2021 LAST DECEMBER, THERE WAS A LOT OF FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT THIS WOULD MEAN A 2.5 PERCENT INCREASE IN 2021 PROPERTY TAXES. THIS IS LIKELY WHAT PROPERTY OWNERS ARE EXPECTING WHEN THEY RECEIVED THEIR 2021 BILLS. OR WHAT ABOUT EQUALITY? SHOULD COUNCIL STRIVE FOR EQUALITY BETWEEN THE CONTRIBUTIONS, MEANING THE MILL RATES SHOULD BE THE SAME? OR DOES EQUALITY HAVE A DIFFERENT MEANING IN THIS CONTEXT? DOES IT MEAN EQUAL TO UTILIZE SERVICES, EQUAL TO OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, EQUAL TO PREVIOUS YEARS? THERE ARE NO RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWERS. THESE ARE POLITICAL CHOICES THAT COUNCIL MUST MAKE, MUST REFLECT IN THEIR DIRECTION TO ADMINISTRATION, AND MUST STAND BEHIND. AN ASPECT THAT MIGHT FACTOR INTO SEVERAL OF THOSE CONSIDERATIONS ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE IS HOW THEY IMPACT THE RESULTING TAX BILLS. AS I NOTED EARLIER, IT'S STILL TOO EARLY IN THE PROCESS TO TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC 2021 MILL RATES AS THE ASSESSMENT ROLE HASN'T YET BEEN FINALIZED. IN FACT, THE BORDER OF REVISION ISN'T EVEN SCHEDULED TO MEET UNTIL LATER THIS WEEK. THEN IT WILL TAKE SOME TIME TO INCORPORATE THEIR DECISIONS INTO THE ASSESSMENT RULE. BUT WE CAN MAKE SOME ASSUMPTIONS BASED ON PRELIMINARY DATA TO PROVIDE SOME OTHER EXAMPLES FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES. FOR STARTERS, BASED ON THE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE DATA, THERE HAS BEEN A VERY MODEST GROWTH OF ABOUT $15.5 MILLION IN THE CITY'S ASSESSMENT BASE OVER THE PAST YEAR, THE CHANGE OF ABOUT 0.4 PERCENT. FURTHERMORE, THE RELATIVE COMPOSITION OF THE CITY'S ASSESSMENT BASE IS NOT EXPECTED TO CHANGE SIGNIFICANTLY FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR. THERE IS EXPECTED TO BE A MINOR DECLINE IN THE COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL CLASS, LARGELY DUE TO EIGHT PROPERTIES IN THE [INAUDIBLE] AREA BEING RECLASSIFIED FROM COMMERCIAL TO RESIDENTIAL. THIS DECREASE IS EXPECTED TO AT LEAST PARTIALLY OFFSET, THEY PARTIALLY OFFSET BY AN INCREASE IN THE RESIDENTIAL CLASS. TO INFORM YOUR DISCUSSION, ADMINISTRATION PREPARED FOUR MILL RATE SCENARIOS, EACH RESULTING IN A DIFFERENT DISTRIBUTION OF PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY AND YIELDING A DIFFERENT COMMERCIAL TO RESIDENTIAL MILL RATE RATIO. IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT THESE CALCULATIONS ARE BASED ON CURRENTLY AVAILABLE ASSESSMENT DATA, WHICH IS NOT YET FINALIZED. IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THESE AREN'T THE ONLY FOUR OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO COUNCIL. [00:20:04] THEY'VE SIMPLY BEEN SELECTED TO ILLUSTRATE THE IMPACTS OF DIFFERENT POSSIBILITIES FOR COUNCIL'S CONSIDERATION. IN 2020, COUNCIL APPROVED MILL RATES THAT RESULTED IN A COMMERCIAL TO RESIDENTIAL MILL RATE RATIO OF 2.26. THE RATES THEN THAT WITH ABOUT 38.5 PERCENT OF THE TOTAL ASSESSMENT VALUE, NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES ACCOUNTED FOR JUST OVER 58 PERCENT OF THE PROPERTY TAXATION REVENUE, WHERE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS PROVIDED ALMOST 42 PERCENT OF THE PROPERTY TAXATION REVENUE. AS NOTED EARLIER, THERE ISN'T EXPECTED TO BE A SIGNIFICANT SHIFT IN THE UNDERLYING ASSESSMENT DAYS. IF COUNCIL WANTS TO SET 2021 MILL RATES TO MAINTAIN THE 2.26 MILL RATE RATIO, POSSIBLE MILL RATES TO ACHIEVE THIS WILL CAUSE ONLY A VERY MINOR ADJUSTMENT IN PROPERTY TAXATION RESPONSIBILITY. NON-RESIDENTIAL OWNERS WILL SEE THEIR SHARE OF TAXES DROPPED BY 0.24 PERCENT, WHILE THE PROPORTION CONTRIBUTED BY RESIDENTIAL OWNERS WILL, OF COURSE, INCREASE BY THAT SAME 0.24 PERCENT. LOOKED OUT IN AN HISTORICAL CONTEXT THIS REALLY ISN'T MUCH OF A CHANGE. TAXATION RESPONSIBILITY MIRRORS THE SLIGHT CHANGE IN ASSESSMENT COMPOSITION. THE BLACK LINES REPRESENTING RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES TURN SLIGHTLY UPWARDS, WHILE THE BLUE LINES, THE NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, TURNED DOWN BY THE SAME PROPORTION. FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES, IF COUNCIL PREFERS TO SET MILL RATES THAT RESULT IN THE 2.13 RATIO THAT EXISTED PRIOR TO THE 2018 GENERAL ASSESSMENT, THE NECESSARY MILL RATES WOULD SHIFT MORE OF THE TAXATION RESPONSIBILITY TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS. THEY WOULD SEE THEIR OVERALL PROPERTY TAX CONTRIBUTION INCREASE BY 1.53 PERCENT OVER 2020, WHILE NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS WOULD SEE THEIR OVERALL CONTRIBUTION REDUCED BY THAT SAME PERCENTAGE. THIS CHART SHOWS HOW THESE MILL RATES WILL PRODUCE A MORE MARKED REDUCTION IN THE NON-RESIDENTIAL SHARE PROPERTY TAX REVENUE. THE DOTTED BLUE LINE, MATCHED BY AN EQUAL INCREASE IN THE RESIDENTIAL SHARE, THE DOTTED BLACK LINE. TAKING THAT ONE STEP FURTHER AS ANOTHER EXAMPLE, IF COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE RATIO REVERT TO THE 1.83 THAT IT STOOD OUT BETWEEN 2007 AND 2013, THE MILL RATES REQUIRED TO ACHIEVE THAT WOULD SHIFT EVEN MORE OF THE RESPONSIBILITY TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS WHO WOULD SEE THEIR SHARE OF THE TOTAL PROPERTY TAXATION RESPONSIBILITY INCREASE BY 5.44 PERCENT COMPARED TO 2020. WHILE NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS WOULD SEE A REDUCTION OF THAT SAME PERCENTAGE AND THEIR OVERALL CONTRIBUTION. THE MORE PRONOUNCED SHIFTS RESULTING FROM THE MILL RATES NEEDED TO ACHIEVE THE 1.83 RATIO ARE QUITE VISIBLE IN THIS CHART. IN 2015, COUNCIL ENTERTAINED THE POSSIBILITY OF ATTAINING A COMMERCIAL TO RESIDENTIAL MILL RATE RATIO OF 1-1. IF THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN PURSUED IN 2021, THE UNDERLYING MILL RATE CHANGES WOULD SIGNIFICANTLY SHIFT PROPERTY TAX RESPONSIBILITY AWAY FROM NON-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS WHO WOULD SEE THEIR CONTRIBUTION REDUCED BY OVER 20 PERCENT. THE DIFFERENCE WOULD, OF COURSE, BE BORN BY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS. THE RATHER DRAMATIC RESULT OF THESE RATES IS CLEARLY DEPICTED IN THIS CHART, WHERE WE SEE THE TAXATION RESPONSIBILITY LINES CROSS. TO MORE DIRECTLY COMPARE THE SAMPLE SCENARIOS, THIS CHART IS A SLIGHTLY ABBREVIATED VERSION OF THE HISTORICAL PROPERTY TAX CONTRIBUTION SUMMARY PRESENTED EARLIER. SCENARIO 1, ESTABLISHING MILL RATES THAT MAINTAIN THE 2.26 RATIO FROM 2020, ALSO MAINTAINS THE RELATIVE PROPERTY TAX CONTRIBUTIONS. SCENARIO 2, SETTING THE MILL RATES TO CREATE THE 2.13 RATIO, SLIGHTLY INCREASES THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TAXATION RESPONSIBILITY. SCENARIO 3, CALCULATING MILL RATES THAT GO BACK TO THE 1.83 RATIO THAT WE SAW FIRST IN 2007, RESULTS IN A MORE MARKED INCREASE IN THE RESIDENTIAL CONTRIBUTION. WELL, SCENARIO 4, SETTING MILL RATES TO ACHIEVE A 1-1 RATIO CREATES A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN THE TAXATION RESPONSIBILITY OF RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS. [00:25:08] THAT'S A BIG PICTURE VIEW, BUT WHAT DO THE DIFFERENT OPTIONS MEAN FOR THE TAX BILLS OF INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNERS? AGAIN, BASED ON PRELIMINARY NUMBERS, THIS CHART SHOWS WHAT THE APPROXIMATE 2021 MUNICIPAL PROPERTY TAXATION AMOUNTS COULD BE FOR SAMPLE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES UNDER EACH SCENARIO. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THESE ARE ASSUMING ASSESSED VALUES REMAIN STABLE. HOMEOWNERS WHOSE RENOVATIONS OR OTHER PROPERTY IMPROVEMENTS HAVE INCREASED THEIR ASSESSED VALUES WILL ALSO SEE TAX INCREASES PROPORTIONAL TO THOSE ASSESSMENT CHANGES. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE AS WELL, THAT THESE NUMBERS DO NOT INCLUDE SCHOOL TAXES. WE ARE ONLY TALKING MUNICIPAL TAXES. ASSUMING NO CHANGE IN THE UNDERLYING ASSESS VALUE AND LOOKING ONLY AT MUNICIPAL TAXES, MILL RATES ARE TO MAINTAIN THE 2.26 RATIO FROM LAST YEAR, MEANING THE ESTIMATED 2021 YEARS OF PROPERTY TAX BILL FOR RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS WILL PRETTY MUCH REFLECT JUST THE 2.5 PERCENT INCREASE INHERENT IN BUDGET 2021. SETTING THE MILL RATES TO REVERT TO THE 2.13 RATIO WOULD MEAN THAT RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS WOULD SEE 2021 PROPERTY TAX BILLS THAT ARE ABOUT 6.68 PERCENT HIGHER THAN THOSE THEY SOUGHT IN 2020. GOING BACK TO THE 1.83 RATIO WOULD RESULT IN AVERAGE INCREASES OF ABOUT 15 AND A QUARTER PERCENT OVER 2020, WHILE ATTAINING A ONE-TO-ONE RATIO WOULD INCREASE HOMEOWNERS TAX BILLS BY OVER 51 PERCENT. TURNING TO COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, ASSUMING THE SAME CAVEATS AS FOR RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES; PRELIMINARY DATA, FIXED ASSESSMENT VALUES AND MUNICIPAL TAXES ONLY, THIS SLIDE DEPICTS ESTIMATED PROPERTY TAX BILLS FOR SAMPLE COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES. MAINTAINING THE 2.26 RATIO FROM 2020 MEANS OWNERS OF COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES COULD EXPECT TO SEE TAX INCREASES THAT REFLECT THAT 2.5 PERCENT FROM BUDGET 2021. THE MILL RATES TO ATTAIN THE 2.13 RATIO WOULD OFFSET SOME OF THE BUDGET 2021 INCREASE, AND TAXES ON COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES WOULD ONLY INCREASE ABOUT A THIRD OF A PERCENT OVER WHAT THEY WERE IN 2020. SCENARIO 3, NO RATES TO PRODUCE A 1.83 RATIO, WOULD MEAN COMMERCIAL OWNERS WOULD SEE 21 TAX BILLS THAT ARE 6.67 PERCENT LOWER THAN THEY WERE IN 2020. WHILE MILL RATES TO ACHIEVE SCENARIO 4 'S ONE-TO-ONE RATIO WOULD RESULT IN A 2021 TAX BILL, ABOUT A THIRD LOWER THAN THE 2020 BILL. OF COURSE, COUNCIL CAN DIRECT ADMINISTRATION TO DEVELOP MILL RATES THAT CORRESPOND TO ANY OF THESE SCENARIOS OR ANY OTHER DISTRIBUTION OF RESPONSIBILITY THAT COUNCIL DEEMS APPROPRIATE. THE ONLY CAVEAT IS THAT THE AMOUNT OF PROPERTY TAXATION REVENUE MUST EQUAL THE AMOUNT REQUIRED BY THE PROGRAMS AND SERVICES INHERENT IN BUDGET 2021. MATHEMATICALLY, ADMINISTRATION CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN. NOW, IT'S UP TO COMMITTEE TO DEBATE WHAT YOU WANT TO HAPPEN AND WHAT YOU WILL SUPPORT FROM A POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE. QUESTIONS? >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH MISS WOODWARD, AND THANK YOU TO YOURSELF AND THE TEAM FOR PRESENTING THIS INFORMATION. I KNOW IT'S A LOT OF WORK TO PULL IT TOGETHER, BUT I THINK IT'S BEEN A COMPREHENSIVE VIEW. WITH THAT, I WILL OPEN IT UP TO QUESTIONS, COMMENTS FROM COUNCIL. COUNCIL MORGAN, I THINK YOU HAD A FEW. COUNCIL MORGAN, AND THEN COUNCIL CONDUCT. >> THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND ONE POPPED INTO MY HEAD DURING THE PRESENTATION THAT I DIDN'T SEND TO ADMINISTRATION AHEAD OF TIME, SO I MIGHT JUST ASK THAT ONE FIRST. I'VE NOTICED THAT [NOISE] EVEN OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS, [NOISE] WE HAVE A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES IN TERMS OF OVERALL ASSESSMENT VALUE. THE PERCENT CONTRIBUTION TO TAXES BY RESIDENTIAL HAS STAYED RELATIVELY EVEN, SO ABOUT 42 PERCENT. IT'S STAYED PRETTY STABLE OVER THE YEARS, EVEN THOUGH IT SEEMS THERE'S MORE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES [00:30:03] OR AT LEAST HIGHER VALUE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES CONTRIBUTING TO THAT [NOISE]. I'M WONDERING IF THAT WAS INTENTIONAL TO TRY TO KEEP THAT 42 PERCENT RESIDENTIAL STABLE? IS THAT BASED ON A CERTAIN PHILOSOPHY OR VALUE OR WAS THAT ACCIDENTAL THAT THE PORTION OF THE OVERALL CONTRIBUTION TO TAXES BY RESIDENTIAL STAY THE SAME EVEN THOUGH WE SEEM TO HAVE MORE OR HIGHER VALUE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES NOW? IS THAT A CLEAR QUESTION? >> YEAH. MS. BASSI-KELLETT? >> THANK YOU. I'LL ASK MS. WOODWARD TO RESPOND. >> THANK YOU. YES, IN THE ABSENCE OF DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL FOR AT LEAST THE LAST 20 YEARS, ADMINISTRATION HAS DEVELOPED AND RECOMMENDED MILL RATES THAT MAINTAIN THE RELATIVE PROPORTION OF PROPERTY TAX CONTRIBUTION. IN OTHER WORDS, THE AMOUNT PAID BY ALL OF THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES VERSUS THE AMOUNT PAID BY ALL OF THE NON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES. THAT PERCENTAGE HAS STAYED RELATIVELY CONSISTENT OVER THE LAST AT LEAST TWO DECADES, AND THAT HAS BEEN DONE IN THE ABSENCE OF SPECIFIC DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL. IT MEANS THAT THE PROPERTY TAX BILLS PRETTY MUCH REFLECT ONLY THE DECISIONS MADE IN THE BUDGET. IF THE BUDGET WAS GOING TO INCREASE TAX BY ONE PERCENT, THAT'S WHAT KEEPING THIS RATIO STEADY OR KEEPING THE RELATIVE PROPORTION OF TAX CONTRIBUTION. IT ALSO MEANT THAT THERE WAS THAT PREDICTABILITY IN THE PROPERTY TAX BILLS. >> OKAY. BUT JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, IF YOU HAVE MORE AND MORE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES OVER TIME AND LESS AND LESS COMMERCIAL, THAT WOULD MEAN THAT EACH INDIVIDUAL RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY WOULD PAY LESS AND LESS OVER TIME, AND EACH OF THE DWINDLING NUMBER OF COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES WOULD PAY MORE AND MORE OVER TIME IF THE GOAL ITSELF WAS JUST TO KEEP THE OVERALL PROPORTIONS THE SAME NO MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE MAKE UP RESIDENTIAL OR MAKEUP COMMERCIAL. I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WOULD BE A RECOMMENDED PHILOSOPHY AND WE'VE SEEN THAT BECAUSE THE RATIO KEEPS CREEPING UP SLIGHTLY OVER TIME. IS THERE ANYTHING FURTHER TO EXPLAIN WHY THAT WOULD BE ADVANTAGEOUS OR WHY THAT WOULD FULFILL A CERTAIN VALUE. >> IT'S A POLITICAL DECISION, BUT MS. BASSI-KELLETT? >> MS. WOODWARD? >> THANK YOU. I THINK THE MAYOR SUMMED IT UP. IT HAS BEEN A POLITICAL DECISION. ADMINISTRATION WILL COME FORWARD, MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO. YEAR AFTER YEAR, COUNCIL HAS APPROVED THOSE MILL RATES, MAKING A POLITICAL DECISION TO APPROVE THEM AS RECOMMENDED. >> AS I SAID, EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE MATHEMATICALLY, WE ALWAYS BRING IT FORWARD FOR COUNCIL'S APPROVAL AND THIS DOES SEEM TO BE ONE OF THE THINGS WHERE MAINTAINING THE STATUS QUO HAS BEEN THE PLAN OR BEING THE COURSE OF ACTION THAT'S BEEN FOLLOWED. >> OKAY. YEAH, JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF THERE'S SOMETHING I WAS MISSING THERE. THEN SOME QUESTIONS I'VE THOUGHT OF FOR CLARIFICATION. WHERE DO INSTITUTIONS FALL UNDER THESE PROPERTY CLASSES, SUCH AS THE HOSPITAL? >> MS. BASSI-KELLETT. >> MS. WOODWARD. [NOISE] >> THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. AS WITH ANY PROPERTY, THE ASSESSOR ASSIGNS THEM TO AN ESTABLISHED PROPERTY CLASS DEPENDING ON THE PREDOMINANT USE. IN THE CASE OF A GOVERNMENT PROPERTY OR A PROPERTY OWNED BY ANOTHER ORDER OF GOVERNMENT, THE ASSESSED VALUE IS THEN MULTIPLIED BY THE ASSOCIATED NO RATE TO GET A TAXATION AMOUNT. WE DON'T GET TAXES FROM THE OTHER ORDERS OF GOVERNMENT, BUT WE DO GET MONEY IN LIEU OF TAXES. THAT AMOUNT IS DETERMINED THE SAME FOR ANY PROPERTY. THE HOSPITAL BY THE WAY, FALLS INTO THE COMMERCIAL CLASSIFICATION AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS FOR THAT SLIGHT BUMP IN THE COMMERCIAL SHARE MOST RECENTLY, SIMPLY BECAUSE THAT WAS A HUGE AMOUNT OF GROWTH FOR THE COMMERCIAL CLASS. >> [NOISE] THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT AND I DO REMEMBER THAT DISCUSSION WE HAD WHEN THE HOSPITAL CAME ONLINE ABOUT HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT TAXES AND NO RATE RATIOS. [00:35:02] I BELIEVE YOU ANSWERED THIS QUESTION AS PART OF YOUR PRESENTATION, BUT THE PROPERTY TAXES WERE DEFINED BY THE CITY AND THEY'RE LOCATED IN BY-LAWS. THAT MEANS WE COULD CHANGE HOW WE DEFINE THE DIFFERENT PROPERTY CLASSES OR IS IT DEFINED IN PART OF THE NWT LEGISLATION? >> A BIT OF A MIXED PATTERN GIVES US DIRECTION TO THEN SET BY-LAWS. MS. BASSI-KELLETT. >> THANKS. THAT'S CORRECT. MS. WOODWARD. >> THANK YOU. YES UNDER PROPERTY AND ASSESSMENT AND TAXATION AT COUNCIL IS GIVEN THE AUTHORITY TO ESTABLISH PROPERTY CLASSES. RIGHT NOW THERE IS [INAUDIBLE] TAX ADMINISTRATION BY-LAW. >> BUT DO WE HAVE ANY LEEWAY TO MAKE UP DIFFERENT PROPERTY CLASSES OR TO DRILL FURTHER DOWN WITHIN? SEPARATE COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL OR SEPARATE INSTITUTIONAL OR SEPARATE A CERTAIN SCALE OF BUSINESS FROM THE LOCAL ENTREPRENEURS OR REALLY SMALL BUSINESSES. DO WE HAVE ANY POWER TO CREATE NEW DEFINITIONS LIKE THAT? >> MS. BASSI-KELLETT? >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. CERTAINLY COUNCIL HAS THE POWER TO DO THAT. IT IS ABOUT THE CORRELATING WORKLOAD THAT GOES WITH IT. MS. WOODWARD? >> THANK YOU. YES, OF COURSE, COUNCIL HAS THE AUTHORITY TO CREATE AS BROAD OR AS NARROW A PROPERTY CLASS AS IT SEES FIT. ONE OF THE CAVEATS THAT I WOULD CAUTION ABOUT IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVING DIFFERENT CLASSES FOR DIFFERENT SIZE OF BUSINESS. WHAT CRITERIA WOULD BE LOOKED AT IN ORDER TO DETERMINE IF, FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S A SMALL BUSINESS OR A LARGE BUSINESS? WOULD IT BE EMPLOYEES? WOULD IT BE GROSS REVENUE? WOULD IT BE NET INCOME? THOSE ARE PIECES OF INFORMATION THAT COULD DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THEM, BUT WE DO RUN INTO SOME OVERHEAD IN LOGISTICAL CHALLENGES. COUNCIL TYPICALLY DOESN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THAT TYPE OF CRITERIA. HOWEVER, IF THAT IS WHAT IS WANTED, WE WOULD THEN GIVE CONSIDERATION TO THE FACT THAT THAT MEANS THAT THE ASSESSOR MUST NOW ASSIGN EVERY COMMERCIAL PROPERTY TO A NEW CLASS. SO THERE'S A FAIR AMOUNT OF LEGWORK THERE. THEN WE WOULD WANT TO LOOK INTO THE RESOURCES THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN THAT INFORMATION, WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE IT REVIEWED ADMINISTRATIVELY AND BRING THE ASSESSOR IN EVERY YEAR JUST TO DEAL WITH THE FLUCTUATIONS. YES, IT CAN BE DONE, BUT THERE IS AN OVERHEAD COST THE MORE GRANULAR WE GO. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT INSIGHT INTO WHAT THAT WOULD INVOLVE. DO YOU KNOW OF ANY PRECEDENTS OR EXAMPLES OF OTHER MUNICIPALITIES WHERE THEY HAVE DRILLED DOWN OR REFINED WITH MORE DETAILED DIFFERENT PROPERTY CLASSES IN THOSE KIND OF WAYS? >> OH NO, BUT IT ALSO CAN BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT. WHEN YOU COMPARE IT WITH SUCH AS MS. WOODWARD'S EXAMPLE OF THE TYPE OF BUSINESSES THAT ARE IN LADUKE ARE DIFFERENT THAN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY THAT'S LOCATED IN YELLOWKNIFE, WHICH CAN HAVE A DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO SET NO RATES, BUT MS. BASSI-KELLETT ADMINS REVIEW ON THIS? >> ABSOLUTELY. MS. WOODWARD. >> THANK YOU. I THINK AN IMPORTANT THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT NO RATES ARE SET FOR THE PURPOSES OF DISTRIBUTING PROPERTY TAXES. THEY AREN'T INTENDED TO INCENTIVIZE OR ENCOURAGE OR DISCOURAGE CERTAIN TYPES OF DEVELOPMENT IN CERTAIN AREAS OR TO ATTRACT CERTAIN THINGS. THEY EXIST TO SAY WE NEED THIS MUCH REVENUE, HERE'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO DISTRIBUTE IT OVER THE PROPERTY OWNERS. IF WE'RE LOOKING AT WAYS TO INCENTIVIZE OR ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OTHER TOOLS THAT ARE PROBABLY BETTER SUITED. JUST A SMALL EXAMPLE, THE CITY HAS A SUMMER PATIO PROGRAM WHICH GOT QUITE BROAD LAST YEAR WITH COVID. THAT'S A VERY TARGETED WAY TO ENCOURAGE WHAT WE WANT TO HAPPEN. I KNOW THAT THERE ARE OTHER PROGRAMS THAT ARE IN THE PROCESS OF BEING DEVELOPED TO SIMILAR THINGS, BUT ON A MUCH BROADER SCALE. >> I MEAN, THAT'S THE THE ROUTE THAT I WOULD PREFER TO GO DOWN. I'LL JUST MAKE BRIEF COMMENTS NOW, BUT I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING WHAT OTHERS HAVE TO SAY. IN MY MIND [NOISE] I DO SEE THAT A PATTERN OVER THE YEARS THAT WE SAW IN THE PAST 20 YEARS WHERE THERE'S BEEN A CREEPING OF SLIGHTLY LESS BURDEN BEING TAKEN ON BY INDIVIDUAL RESIDENTIAL OWNERS OVER TIME, JUST BECAUSE IT SEEMS THAT THERE'S BEEN MORE OF THEM OR HIGHER VALUE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES TO TAKE CARE OF [00:40:06] THAT 42 PERCENT PORTION OF THE TAXES AND SLIGHTLY LESS COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES OVER THE YEARS TO TAKE THE 58 PERCENT. I DO SEE THAT THERE'S A PATTERN THERE WHICH I'M NOT AT ALL CERTAIN IS JUSTIFIED PHILOSOPHICALLY OR POLITICALLY. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I WOULD PREFER TO SEE WHAT COULD BE DONE TO SUPPORT LOCAL BUSINESSES, SMALL BUSINESSES, WHERE EVEN A SMALL AMOUNT OF PROPERTY TAX OR JUST RELIEF OR INCENTIVES OF VARIOUS KINDS WOULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. INSTEAD OF USING A REALLY BROAD TOOL THAT IN THE HOPES THAT WE'RE SUPPORTING THE LOCAL ECONOMY AND LOCAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, WE MIGHT END UP JUST GIVING A LOT OF TAX BREAKS TO SAVE BIG BOX STORES OR BIG INSTITUTIONS THAT HONESTLY MIGHT NOT EVEN NOTICE IT WOULD BE A ROUNDING ERROR TO THEM, BUT IT WOULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE TO US AS A CITY IN TERMS OF WHAT SERVICES WE COULD OFFER TO PEOPLE AND IT WOULD MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE TO EACH OF THOSE INDIVIDUAL RESIDENTIAL OWNERS TO PAY THAT EXTRA AMOUNT THAT SOME OF THOSE BUSINESSES GETTING THE RELIEF WOULD BARELY EVEN NOTICE. MY CONCERN ABOUT MAKING SWEEPING CHANGES THAT WOULD DRAMATICALLY INCREASE ALL THE RESIDENTIAL TAXES AND DRAMATICALLY DECREASE ALL OF THE COMMERCIAL TAXES WOULD BE THAT WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY TARGETING THE ONES THAT WE'RE MOST INTERESTED IN HELPING AND PERHAPS IT'S NOT THE RIGHT TOOL. THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS AT THE MOMENT, BUT I DO LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING WHAT OTHERS HAVE TO SAY. >> THANK YOU. COUNCIL KONGE. >> THANK YOU. [NOISE] I THINK FIRST OFF, THANK YOU, ADMINISTRATION, FOR THE INFORMATION THAT WE'VE RECEIVED. I THINK THIS IS THE 9TH TIME THAT I'VE HAD MILL RATES COME BEFORE ME AS A COUNCILOR. WE GOT MORE INFORMATION THIS TIME THAN I THINK WE COLLECTIVELY SAW OVER THE LAST EIGHT TIMES. I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE I REMEMBER BEING IN COUNCIL THE FIRST TIME, THE MILL RATES CAME UP. IT WAS ALMOST BURIED IN THE AGENDA AND IT SAID, "MILL RATE APPROVAL. THIS IS WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE," AND THERE WAS NO BACKUP. THERE WAS NO ANYTHING. AS A COUNCILLOR TRYING TO SORT THAT OUT AND UNDERSTAND WHAT IT ALL MEANT, IT TOOK A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TIME AND ENERGY. I THINK I'VE HAD MORE TO SAY ABOUT MILL RATES THAN ALMOST ALL MY OTHER COUNCIL SERVICE ON EVERY OTHER COUNCIL HAD BEFORE COLLECTIVELY. THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION. WE HAVE SEEN OVER, AND THE NUMBERS SHOW, THAT OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS, THAT THE TAX BURDEN ON THE COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES HAS SLOWLY INCREASED. THERE'S BEEN NOT REALLY ANY TOO MANY BIG JUMPS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT AS COUNCILLOR MORGAN MENTIONED, WE HAVE LESS OF A COMMERCIAL-INDUSTRIAL TAX BASE, AND THEY'RE STILL PAYING THAT CLOSE TO 60 PERCENT. ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT IT IS THAT, THE 60 PERCENT OF THE RESIDENTIAL, THEY HAVE 60 PERCENT OF THE WEALTH IN THE CITY, BUT THEY ONLY PAY LESS THAN 40 PERCENT OF THE TAXES, AND THAT'S NOT VERY FAIR AND EQUITABLE IF YOU ASK ME, WHERE YOU HAVE 60 PERCENT OF THE WEALTH ONLY PAYING 40 PERCENT OF THE BURDEN. AS MS. WOODWARD SAYS, IT BECOMES PHILOSOPHICAL, AND I THINK THAT WE ARE WORKING THE PHILOSOPHY THAT WE HAVE DONE OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS COMES FROM A TIME WHEN WE HAD GIANT MINE OPERATING. WE HAD CON MINE OPERATING. WE HAD VERY BIG, VERY ROBUST INDUSTRIES HAPPENING IN THE CITY, AND THE CITY WAS BENEFITING FROM THAT, AND WE'RE COLLECTING TAXES FROM THOSE TWO PROPERTIES. NOT THE CASE ANYMORE. THAT BURDEN HAS BEEN PASSED ON TO SMALLER, MORE LOCAL BUSINESSES WHO DON'T HAVE THE BENEFIT OF THOSE BIGGER BUSINESSES BEING IN [00:45:01] THEIR BACKYARD TO SUPPLY AND HAVE AS CUSTOMERS. I DON'T THINK A ONE-TO-ONE IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO, WHERE 60 PERCENT PAYS 60 PERCENT. I THINK THAT WOULD BE QUITE A SHOCK TO THE SYSTEM, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THAT. POLITICALLY, YOU GET WAY MORE VOTES BY ALL THE RESIDENTS. [NOISE] IF IT'S ONLY ABOUT VOTES, THEN LET'S KEEP THE RESIDENTIAL TAX RATES WAY DOWN. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, EVEN THOSE PEOPLE BUY SERVICES AND THE BUSINESSES HAVE TO MAKE THAT MONEY. EVEN IF WE CONTINUE ON THIS 20-YEAR TREND THAT WE HAVE WHERE BUSINESSES PAY MORE AND MORE AND MORE, IT EVENTUALLY GOES DOWN TO THE CONSUMER. THE CONSUMERS HAVE TO PAY THAT DIFFERENCE, IF YOU WILL; OTHERWISE, THE BUSINESSES GO OUT OF BUSINESS, AND THEY'RE NOT HERE TO SUPPLY THE CONSUMERS. I LIKE OPTION NUMBER 3. IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF A HIT FOR SOME OF THE RESIDENTS, ABSOLUTELY. BUT THAT BEING SAID, LAST YEAR, THERE WERE SEVERAL AREAS OF TOWN THAT ACTUALLY DIDN'T HAVE A TAX INCREASE, THEY SAW A TAX DECREASE. IF YOU LOOKED AT THE NUMBERS, THERE WERE AREAS OF TOWN WHERE THEIR TAXES WENT DOWN, AND THE HOSPITAL. THE HOSPITAL REALLY SAVED THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR BECAUSE OTHERWISE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN EVEN BIGGER SPREAD. FOR ME, THANK YOU TO ADMINISTRATION. HOPEFULLY, ALL OF COUNCIL TOOK A GOOD LOOK AT ALL THIS STUFF AND HOPEFULLY, THERE'S MORE QUESTIONS. I THINK AFTER NINE TIMES DOING THIS. I REALLY HOPE WE DON'T STAY WITH THE STATUS QUO, AND I HOPE WE'LL TRY TO GO TO WHAT I VIEW AS A LITTLE BIT MORE EQUITABLE SOLUTION. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. COUNCIL MORSE? >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE THE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM MY COLLEAGUES AS WELL. IT'S A VALUABLE DISCUSSION FOR US TO HAVE. I DO APPRECIATE ADMINISTRATION FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS OUR PHILOSOPHIES ABOUT HOW TAXES ARE DISTRIBUTED. MY FIRST QUESTION, I'M NOT SURE IF ADMINISTRATION WILL BE ABLE TO ANSWER THIS, BUT HOW MUCH RESIDENTIAL, IF ANY, IS CAPTURED IN COMMERCIAL RATES? WHAT I'M ASKING IS, WHEN WE'RE TAXING COMPANIES WHOSE BUSINESS IS PROVIDING RENTAL PROPERTIES, ARE THEY TAXED COMMERCIALLY, OR RESIDENTIALLY? ARE THERE COMMERCIAL OPERATORS WHO ARE TAXED COMMERCIALLY IN PROVIDING RESIDENTIAL? >> MS. BASSI-KELLETT? >> MS. WOODWARD. >> THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. THE PROPERTY CLASS IS DETERMINED BY THE PREDOMINANT USE OF A BUILDING, SO I THINK MAYBE WHAT YOU ARE GETTING AT IN COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS THAT ARE BEING USED FOR RESIDENTS WOULD BE THINGS LIKE MULTI-RESIDENTIAL UNITS, APARTMENT BLOCKS, AND THAT TYPE OF THING. THERE IS A SPECIFIC PROPERTY CLASS FOR THAT. AS YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN ON ONE OF THE EARLY SLIDES, THE MILL RATE ON THAT MULTI-RESIDENTIAL CLASS IS SOMEWHERE IN-BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL. IT'S NOTED THAT A MULTI-RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY IS GENERALLY RAN AS A BUSINESS, SO THERE'S A SOMEWHAT COMMERCIAL ASPECT TO IT. IT'S ALSO NOTED THAT PEOPLE LIVE THERE. THERE IS THE SHELTER COMPONENT OF IT. BUT TAXES, WHATEVER THEY'RE BEING PAID, ARE GOING TO BE PASSED ON TO THE RENTERS AS PART OF THEIR RENT. THE PHILOSOPHICAL ARGUMENTS SO FAR HAS BEEN THAT THE MILL RATE COMES IN-BETWEEN THE COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL MILL RATES, SO YOU'LL SEE IT'S HIGHER THAN RESIDENTIAL, BUT LOWER THAN COMMERCIAL. IT'S CAPTURING BOTH ASPECTS OF, SAY AN APARTMENT BUILDING THAT IS BEING RENTED OUT IS BEING USED FOR. >> THANK YOU. THAT ANSWER IS GOING TO INFORM SOME OF MY COMMENTS LATER, BUT I'LL CONTINUE WITH QUESTIONS FOR NOW. ANOTHER COUNCILLOR RAISED THE IDEA OF THE POTENTIAL FOR CREATING DIFFERENT CLASSES OF COMMERCIAL OPERATORS. THE IDEA BEING THAT, I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT IMPACT OF TAXES ON BUSINESSES, OF COURSE, WHAT WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT IS SMALL BUSINESS. THE BUSINESSES THAT NEED OUR SUPPORT AS OPPOSED TO THE BIG, SUCCESSFUL ONES. I THINK IT PRETTY MUCH GOES WITHOUT SAYING FOR EVERY ONE ON COUNCIL THAT WE'RE NOT THAT INTERESTED IN REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF TAX TRANSFERS [00:50:04] THE GNWT PAYS TO US, TO THE HOSPITAL. OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S MONEY THAT WE WANT TO COLLECT. I GUESS MY MY QUESTION ON THAT ONE IS, HAVE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES DONE SOMETHING LIKE THAT? ARE THERE ARE OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT HAVE CREATED DIFFERENT CLASSES TO JUST RECOGNIZE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INDEPENDENT SMALL BUSINESS AND BIG COMMERCIAL USERS IN THEIR TAXATION? >>YEAH, THERE WAS A COMMUNITY IN ALBERTA THAT DID IT BY THE NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES NATIONALLY. YOU COULD HAVE A CHAIN THAT'S HERE AND ONLY HAS TWO EMPLOYEES AND THEY WOULDN'T BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE TAX BREAK BECAUSE NATIONALLY, THEY HAVE 50 OR MORE EMPLOYEES. BUT THEN YOU ALSO HAVE, I'LL LET ADMIN EXPLAIN THE NUANCES. MS. BASSI-KELLETT? >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THERE'S A LOT OF CONSIDERATION THAT WOULD GO INTO HOW WE WOULD CATEGORIZE THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF BUSINESSES. I I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD TIME TO LOOK AND DO A FULSOME REVIEW OF WHAT THE BEST PRACTICES ARE ACROSS MUNICIPALITIES BEYOND THOSE SCENARIOS THAT MS. WOODWARD POINTED OUT, BUT I WILL ASK HER IF SHE HAS SOME THOUGHTS ON THIS BECAUSE IT DOES IMPACT DEFINITELY THE AMOUNT OF WORKLOAD THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO ADMINISTER. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. THE CITY MANAGERS, CORRECT. WE HAVEN'T DONE A THOROUGH REVIEW OF ALL OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THAT MIGHT HAVE DIFFERENTIAL PROPERTY CLASSES FOR DIFFERENT SIZES OF BUSINESS. OUR DISCUSSIONS HAVE EVOLVED AROUND HOW WOULD THIS UNFOLD? HOW WOULD WE SEE OURSELVES IMPLEMENTING IT? WE'RE AT THE POINT WHERE THE THEORY IS GREAT, BUT WE ALSO WOULD BE TASKED WITH MAKING IT WORK. SO WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN PAST THAT BECAUSE THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY SPECIFIC DIRECTION FROM COUNCIL TO GO OUT AND COST OUT WHAT WOULD BE INVOLVED IN TERMS OF IT. WE JUST KNOW THAT IT WOULD CERTAINLY ADD SOME LAYERS TO HOW WE ASSIGN OUR CLASSES, HOW WE MAINTAIN THOSE ASSIGNMENTS. BUT AGAIN, IN THE ABSENCE OF SPECIFIC DIRECTION, WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING FURTHER OR A THOROUGH STUDY OF IT. >> OKAY. THANK YOU. I'M INTERESTED TO HEAR FROM MY COLLEAGUES, BUT THIS IS AN INVESTIGATION THAT I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF US LOOKING INTO. I THINK IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF YELLOWKNIFE COULD MAYBE MIRROR WHAT'S BEEN SUCCESSFUL ELSEWHERE OR COULD POTENTIALLY COME UP WITH SOMETHING UNIQUE TO YELLOWKNIFE. BECAUSE I THINK THAT IN THIS CONVERSATION, THE DIFFICULTY FOR ME THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO PUT IT. THERE'S SOME COMMERCIAL OPERATORS THAT I FEEL SHOULD BE CONTRIBUTING MORE TO OUR TAX BASE AND THERE'S SOME THAT I DON'T. THERE'S SOME OPERATORS WHO I ACTUALLY WOULD LIKE TO GIVE A LITTLE BOOST TO, ESPECIALLY IN THE TIME OF COVID, I KNOW THAT A LOT OF SMALL BUSINESSES IN TOWN ARE STRUGGLING AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO START A SMALL BUSINESS. THERE'S A LOT OF RISKS THERE. IT'S SOMETHING THAT I'D BE INTERESTED IN SENIOR ADMINISTRATION PURSUE AND SEEING IF THERE'S AN ELEGANT SOLUTION THAT WE CAN COME UP WITH. I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT AND I'M CURIOUS TO HEAR IF MY COUNTERPARTS WOULD AGREE. BUT OF COURSE, WE DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION IN FRONT OF US TODAY, SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING TODAY. WHEN IT COMES TO RESIDENTIAL AND MULTI RESIDENTIAL, SOMETHING THAT I FIND INTERESTING IS THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY TAXING MULTI-RESIDENTIAL HIGHER. THAT'S INTERESTING TO ME BECAUSE WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE TAX BURDEN AND WHO'S PAYING THE TAXES, I THINK COUNCILLOR KONGE MADE A GOOD POINT THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING GOOD MONEY IN TOWN AND OWN BIG PROPERTIES ARE PAYING LESS TAXES THAN THE COMMERCIAL. I THINK IT'S AN INTERESTING POINT, BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS THAT IS ALSO INTERESTING WITH US TO DISCUSS IS JUST IN YELLOWKNIFE, WE HAVE A PRETTY SEVERE DISPARITY BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO ARE EMPLOYED IN HIGH-PAYING GOVERNMENT JOBS, AND THEN PEOPLE WHO ARE EMPLOYED IN SERVICE INDUSTRY AND OTHER PRIVATE INDUSTRY JOBS THAT DON'T PAY NEARLY AS WELL. I THINK THAT THAT'S A NUANCE THAT IS NOT ALWAYS CAPTURED IN OUR COST OF LIVING DISCUSSIONS THAT SOME PEOPLE IN YELLOWKNIFE ACTUALLY MAKE A VERY GOOD INCOME AND THEIR COST OF LIVING RELATIVE TO THEIR INCOME IS LOWER THAN MANY OTHER PEOPLE IN CANADA. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE IN YELLOWKNIFE WHO ARE MAKING A RELATIVE INCOME THAT IS MUCH LOWER THAN LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE IN CANADA BECAUSE THE COST OF LIVING HERE IS COMPARATIVELY HIGH. [00:55:01] WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE RESIDENTS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO REDUCE THE TAX BURDEN ON, INTERESTINGLY, I THINK MANY OF THOSE RESIDENTS WHO ARE REALLY FEELING THE PINCH OF COST OF LIVING ARE THOSE WHO ARE ACTUALLY UNABLE TO OWN PROPERTY IN THE FIRST PLACE. PEOPLE FOR WHOM THE BURDEN OF INCOME VERSUS AFFORDABILITY ARE NOT ABLE TO MAKE THAT JUMP INTO PROPERTY OWNERSHIP AND ARE RENTING. THAT SIDE OF THE CONVERSATION, I THINK NEEDS, I GUESS A BIT OF EXPANSION. I THINK THAT WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT THAT. WHERE I FIND THIS A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT IS JUST IF WE WERE TO IMPLEMENT CHANGES THAT REDUCE THE BURDEN OF TAXES ON MULTI-RESIDENTIAL, IS THAT GOING TO TRANSLATE TO LOWER RENTS OR IS IT JUST GOING TO GO STRAIGHT INTO THE POCKET OF COMMERCIAL LANDLORDS AND IT WON'T ACTUALLY REDUCE THE COST OF THE RESIDENTS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO TARGET? THAT'S SOMETHING I'D BE INTERESTED IN LEARNING ABOUT. BUT I DO FEEL THAT THERE ARE QUITE A FEW HOMEOWNERS IN YELLOWKNIFE WHO ARE DOING QUITE WELL, THEY HAVE STABLE, HIGH-PAYING JOBS. I THINK THAT THEY ARE IN A POSITION WHERE THE TAX BURDEN WOULDN'T MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE TO THEM. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT COMMERCIAL OPERATORS, I ASKED THIS QUESTION AT ONE OF OUR MEETINGS AT THE CHAMBER AND ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS OF THE CHAMBER POINTED OUT TO ME HOW BIG OF A DIFFERENCE ONE PERCENT MAKES IN THEIR TAX BURDEN EVERY YEAR OR EVERY MONTH FOR THEIR COMPANY. I WAS QUITE SURPRISED. IT WASN'T SOMETHING WHERE THEY JUST SEE IT AS A ROUNDING ERROR, IT'S ACTUALLY A HUGE PORTION OF THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS IS THE COMMERCIAL TAX RATE BECAUSE IT'S SO MUCH HIGHER, OF COURSE TO RESIDENTIAL. WHEREAS TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I KNOW WHERE MY TAX BILL AVERAGES, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE HIGHEST COST THAT I DEAL WITH AS A HOMEOWNER. IF IF IT GOES UP BY TWO OR THREE PERCENT OR DOWN EVERY YEAR, PERSONALLY, I BARELY NOTICE IT. MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW, I THINK I HAVE ABOUT AN AVERAGE SIZE PROPERTY IN TOWN. FOR ME, AN INCREASE IN THE TAX BURDEN WOULDN'T BE THE BIGGEST DEAL, BUT SOME PEOPLE IT IS. I SAID A LOT HERE AND THERE'S A LOT TO CONSIDER. I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT AND THE TOUGH THING ABOUT THIS CONVERSATION IS THAT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT WE WANT TO REDUCE COSTS TO, THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH THE MILL RATE DISCUSSION IS THAT IT'S A LITTLE BIT TOO IMPRECISE FOR US TO ACTUALLY TARGET ANYONE. IF WE'RE TO CHANGE THE COMMERCIAL RATE NOW AND PUT THE BURDEN ON RESIDENTIAL. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE NECESSARILY GOING TO BE GETTING AT WHAT I THINK, WELL, I WON'T SPEAK FOR COUNCIL, WHAT I AS A COUNCILLOR WOULD WANT TO GET AT. THAT IS I'D LIKE TO SEE THE BURDEN REDUCED FOR SMALL BUSINESS, I'D LIKE TO SEE THE BURDEN REDUCED FOR LOWER-INCOME BRACKETS AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT BURDEN PUT BACK ON FOLKS WHO ARE BETTER ABLE TO SHOULDER IT. THE TOUGH THING THAT I'M SITTING WITH HERE IS THAT I DON'T KNOW THAT A CHANGE IS SIMPLY GOING FROM 2.26 TO 2.2 OR 2.18 OR WHATEVER. IT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO ACHIEVE THOSE THINGS. I'M LEFT IN A BIT OF A DIFFICULT POSITION WHERE IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE, I THINK WHEN I LOOK AT THE NUMBERS AND HOW THEY'VE CHANGED OVER THE YEARS, I THINK THE STATUS QUO IS NOT QUITE WHERE I WANT TO BE. I THINK THAT WE ARE PUTTING TOO HIGH OF A BURDEN ON COMMERCIAL, BUT I'M NOT A 100 PERCENT SURE THAT CHANGING THE RATIO IS ACTUALLY GOING TO TARGET WHAT I'M HOPING TO GET AT. I DID HAVE A SUGGESTED RATIO THAT I CAME TO THE MEETING WITH. I'M CURIOUS TO HEAR FROM MY COLLEAGUES AND PASSWORD ADMINISTRATION ON SOME OF THESE COMMENTS AS TO HOW WE MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT MORE PRECISE, OR IF ADMINISTRATION MIGHT HAVE A SUGGESTION FOR DIFFERENT TOOLS THAT WE CAN USE OUTSIDE OF THE MILL RATE RATIO TO GET AT WHAT I'M SUGGESTING ARE THE GOALS OF THIS EXERCISE. THANKS. >>THANK YOU. YEAH. COUNCILLOR MORGAN RAISED IT, AS WELL AS MS. WOODWARD, BUT THEY'RE OUTSIDE OF MILL RATE AND TAXES, THERE IS THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR BUSINESS INCENTIVES. ACTUALLY TAKING FUNDS AND SAYING, WE WANT TO SUPPORT SMALL BUSINESSES, THIS IS HOW. IF YOU LOOK AT THE EXAMPLE AND I'LL PULL THE ALBERTA TAX OR THE ALBERTA MUNICIPALITY UP. BUT THAT SMALL BUSINESS TAXES, AGAIN, NATIONALLY, IF YOU HAVE 50 OR MORE EMPLOYEES, YOU'RE NOT ELIGIBLE.. HERE IN YELLOWKNIFE, IF WE TOOK THAT MODEL, BOSTON PIZZA'S TAXES WOULD GO UP SO COPPER HOUSE'S COULD GO DOWN. IF THAT'S THAT'S WHAT COUNCIL'S LOOKING TO DO, IS TO SUPPORT SMALL BUSINESSES AS OPPOSED TO CHAINS, [01:00:02] THEN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY MAY HAVE DIFFERING VIEWS ON THAT. WE MAY ALSO STRUGGLE WITH STUFF LIKE THE 50-50 MINI MALL WHERE THERE ARE SMALL BUSINESSES LOCATED IN THERE, WOULD THEY BE ELIGIBLE BECAUSE THEIR REITS IS PAYING THE PROPERTY TAX? THEN ICE BLINK WOULD BE PAYING MORE, BUT MERMAID AND MOON WOULD BE PLAYING LAST BECAUSE THEY'RE IN A STANDALONE PROPERTY? THAT'S WHERE AT THE END OF THE DAY, PROPERTY TAXES CAN BE. THAT IS A BLUNT TOOL. IT'S BASICALLY FROM THE FEUDAL TIMES WHERE WE CAN LOOK AT SOME OTHER BUSINESS INCENTIVE IDEAS AND THE DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVE BY-LAW IS COMING FORWARD AFTER THE ZONING BY-LAW, BUT OTHER BUSINESS INCENTIVE OPPORTUNITIES ARE ALWAYS AN OPTION. MS. BASSI-KELLETT, ADMIN, ANY BUSINESS INCENTIVE IDEAS? >> YEAH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR. ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, THERE'S A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE DO RIGHT NOW. CERTAINLY THAT DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN SMALL AND LARGE, LOCAL AND NATIONAL INTERNATIONAL LAW IS PRETTY NUANCED. BUT CERTAINLY RIGHT NOW THE THINGS THAT WE DO PROVIDE IN TERMS OF SMALL BUSINESS SUPPORT. FIRST OF ALL, THE CITY TAKES THAT REALLY SERIOUSLY, SO THROUGH OUR OWN PROCUREMENT POLICY, WE DO COMMIT TO BUYING AT LEAST 85 PERCENT, OR USING 85 PERCENT OF OUR PURCHASING POWER LOCALLY. THE DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVE BY-LAW RIGHT NOW HAS SOME THINGS IN IT. CERTAINLY THAT'S A BIG PROJECT FOR US THAT WE WILL BE TAKING IN ONCE WE COMPLETE THE ZONING BY-LAW, WE WILL BE LOOKING AT THE AT MODERNIZING AND UPDATING THE DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVE BY-LAW. SHOP YK, WE PROMOTE THAT A LOT AND THAT'S A BEST PRACTICE ACROSS A LOT OF MUNICIPALITIES IN TERMS OF SUPPORTING LOCAL BUSINESS. THE PATIO INCENTIVE PROGRAM WAS REFERENCED THAT WE'VE HAD IN PLACE SINCE 2017 AND LAST YEAR AND WILL CONTINUE THIS YEAR, OF COURSE. WE'VE NOT JUST FOCUSED THAT FOR THE DOWNTOWN ALONE BUT IT'S BEEN ANY CREATIVE MODEL TO EXPAND YOUR BUSINESS, TO USE OUTSIDE SPACE GIVEN COVID LIMITATIONS ON INDOOR SPACE AND ACCESS RIGHT NOW, WE CERTAINLY DO PROMOTE THAT. OF COURSE, OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STRATEGY REALLY FOCUSES ON ACTIONS AND STRATEGIES THAT MAINTAIN A POSITIVE CLIMATE FOR BUSINESS, PROMOTE YK AS A REALLY GOOD PLACE TO WORK AND INVEST, SUPPORTING BUSINESS INCUBATORS. OF COURSE, BASED ON THE SIX KEY SECTORS; THE MINERALS SECTOR, TOURISM, POLYTECHNIC, BUILDING UP OUR DOWNTOWN, AGRICULTURE AND FOOD, COLD WEATHER TESTING. JUST EVEN AS RECENTLY AS REACHING OUT TO SOME OF THE MINES THAT ARE LOCATED IN NUNAVUT THAT USE YELLOWKNIFE AS A JUMPING OFF POINT. WE WANT TO MAKE IT REALLY CLEAR THAT WE ARE HERE TO SUPPORT MINERAL DEVELOPMENT, THAT WE CAN EXPEDITE OUR BUSINESSES AND YELLOWKNIFE CAN PREPARE AND BE READY TO SUPPORT THOSE KINDS OF DEVELOPMENTS. THERE ARE MANY THINGS LIKE THAT THAT WE CONTINUE TO DO BEHIND THE SCENES TO PROMOTE WHAT IT IS THAT OUR BUSINESSES IN YELLOWKNIFE CAN PROVIDE TO CLIENTS HERE AND EVEN BEYOND OUR MUNICIPAL BORDERS AS WELL. THANK YOU. >> OKAY. THANKS. I MIGHT COME FORWARD WITH A SUGGESTION FOR WHAT I THINK IS THE BEST WAY, BUT I'M CURIOUS TO HEAR FROM ALL MY COLLEAGUES BEFORE I DO SO. LEAVE IT AT THAT FOR NOW. >> THANK YOU. YEAH. I JUST PULLED THE FINDING OF ALBERTA WAS THE COMMUNITY THAT I WAS REFERENCING IN THE TAX. COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS? >> THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. I'M GOING TO TAKE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ANGLE ON THIS ONE. THE THIRD COMPONENT TO THE TAX BASE THAT WE GATHER IS USER CHARGES. I'M JUST CURIOUS IF THE ADMINISTRATION HAS A BREAKDOWN IN WHO'S TAKING ON MOST OF THOSE USER CHARGES, IS IT PREDOMINANTLY RESIDENTIAL HOAX OR THE PREDOMINANTLY COMMERCIAL ENTITIES? I'M JUST CURIOUS WHAT THAT BREAKDOWN IS. >> GREAT QUESTION. OUR NEXT CART, WHICH IS NEXT THURSDAY, APRIL 15TH, IS GOING TO FOCUS ON FEES AND CHARGES. MS. BASSI-KELLETT? >> A GREAT QUESTION. ABSOLUTELY. AS MS. WOODWARD LAID OUT, TYPICALLY ALL OF OUR REVENUES FROM THE CITY, IT'S THREE BIG CATEGORIES, GOVERNMENT GRANTS, FEES AND CHARGES, PROPERTY TAXATION. OUR FEES AND CHARGES ARE EVERYTHING FROM ADMITTANCE TO GO SWIM AT THE POOL TO OUR SHIPPING FEES AT THE SOLID WASTE FACILITY, TO OUR DEVELOPMENT PERMITS, OUR BUILDING PERMITS, TO OUR RESPONSE TO FIRE AND AMBULANCE. WILL THESE CUT ACROSS THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION, OBVIOUSLY SOME ARE VERY CLEARLY PERSONAL. YOU'RE GOING TO THE POOL, YOU'RE TAKING YOUR FAMILY TO THE POOL, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S FOREIGN BY INDIVIDUAL RESIDENTS. DEVELOPMENT PERMITS, BUILDING PERMITS CERTAINLY CAN OFTEN BE AN INDIVIDUAL, BUT THEY CAN OFTEN BE A BUSINESS AS WELL. IT DOES RUN THE GAMUT, BUT CERTAINLY AS WE BRING FORWARD THAT PRESENTATION TO CART ON THE 15TH, THERE WILL BE A LOT MORE DETAIL THERE THAT REALLY SPELLS OUT THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF UNIQUE SITUATIONS IN OUR FACE AND SERVICES, AND WE CERTAINLY DO TRY TO BALANCE THE COSTS THAT EVERYBODY PAYS PROPORTIONATELY IN TERMS OF PROPERTY TAX TO SUPPORT [01:05:05] THE OVERALL FUNCTIONING OF THE COMMUNITY WITH THOSE THINGS THAT PEOPLE OPT INTO AND THAT CAN TOP-UP THAT THROUGH THOSE FEES AND CHARGES THEMSELVES. THANK YOU. >> YEAH. THANK YOU. I LOOK FORWARD TO THAT. I WOULD HOPE IT WOULD BE SOME INFORMATION ON WHAT THAT MIX IS BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THIS DISCUSSION IS MAYBE A LITTLE TOO NARROW. WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE TAX BURDEN BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL AND REALLY THERE'S TWO OTHER COMPONENTS TO THAT PICTURE. I WOULD GUESS, BUT WITHOUT HAVING ANY INFORMATION THAT I WOULD GUESS THAT THE RESIDENTS TAKE ON A MAJORITY OF THE FEES AND CHARGES. I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT GOVERNMENT GRANTS ARE GENERALLY FOCUSED ON PEOPLE AND RESIDENTS AND MAYBE AREN'T A PART OF THE COMMERCIAL DISCUSSION, THERE WILL BE DIFFERENT FUNDING STREAMS FROM GNWT THAT WOULD FIND DIFFERENT ENTITIES OR DIFFERENT OUTCOMES. AGAIN, JUST SAYING THAT 60 PERCENT OF THE TAXATION BASIS ONLY PAYING FOR 40 PERCENT OF THE OVERALL TAX BURDEN WHEN WE'RE NOT CONSIDERING THESE OTHER BUCKETS AND WHAT THE BALANCES IN THOSE BUCKETS, THAT LEAVES ME WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO HAVE OUR FULL WHOLESOME DISCUSSION ON THAT. BECAUSE AGAIN, WHEN THOSE OTHER AREAS COME TO LIGHT, I AM SURE WOULD EVEN IT OUT A LITTLE BIT. I WAS ALSO CURIOUS THERE WAS, A MENTION IN THE PRESENTATION THAT THE COMMERCIAL TAX BASE HAD CHANGED FOR 2021 IN THAT SOME OF THE PROPERTIES IN CAM LAKE AREA HAD MOVED TO RESIDENTIAL. I'M JUST CURIOUS ABOUT MAYBE EXPANDING ON SOME OF THAT AND THEN MAYBE IF IN THE ANSWER, SORRY, IS THERE A TREND TO BE SEEN HERE? MAYBE WHAT PROPORTION OF CAM LAKE IS NOW BEING TAXED RESIDENTIALLY AS OPPOSED TO BEING COMMERCIALLY. >> MS. BASSI-KELLETT? >> MS. WOODWARD? >> THANK YOU. YES. OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST YEAR, THERE WERE EIGHT PROPERTIES WHERE THE PRIMARY USE IS NOW CONSIDERED TO BE RESIDENTIAL, WHEREAS PREVIOUSLY IT WAS COMMERCIAL. WE HAVE SEEN A SHIFT SINCE THE ZONING CHANGED OUT THERE ALLOWING PEOPLE TO LIVE. I DO NOT UPTREND INFORMATION AT MY FINGERTIPS BUT I CAN GET IT FOR YOU. >> YEAH. THANK YOU FOR THAT. I THINK WHAT WE WOULD FIND IS THAT, I GUESS MY SECOND FOLLOW-UP QUESTION IN THOSE EIGHT PARTICULAR PROPERTIES, IS THERE STILL COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES HAPPENING ON THOSE LOTS OR HAVE THEY GONE 100 PERCENT RESIDENTIAL? >> MS. BASSI-KELLETT? >> MS. WOODWARD? >> THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. I DON'T HAVE THAT PERCENTAGE OR THAT INFORMATION RIGHT NOW. I'LL HAVE TO DRILL INTO IT AND GET BACK TO YOU. >> THANK YOU. I GOT A PART THAT I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING IN THE PRESENTATION WAS THE NATIONWIDE AVERAGE OF RATIO BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL, AND THAT BEING A 2.65 TIMES. FOR ME, WHEN I SEE A 2.26, I ALREADY SEE THAT AS A MORE ATTRACTIVE SPACE TO THE BUSINESS THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. IT'S ALSO HARD FOR ME TO RADICALLY CHANGE THE RATIO WITHOUT SOME OF THE OTHER INFORMATION LIKE CONSIDERING WHAT THE INTENTION BEHIND GOVERNMENT GRANTS IS AND WHAT THAT MIX OF USER CHARGES HAS TO TALK ABOUT THE FULL BURDEN. VERY MUCH APPRECIATED, THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT VARIOUS DIFFERENT TAXATION CATEGORIES OR SUBCATEGORIES. I LIKE SOME OF MY OTHER COLLEAGUES WOULD BE VERY EXCITED TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION. BUT I THINK A COUPLE OF OPPORTUNITIES TO CAPTURE SOME OF THIS LOST COMMERCIAL TAXATION BASE. BECAUSE I THINK WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING IS THAT THEY ARE JUST MIGRATING FROM COMMERCIAL TO RESIDENTIAL BECAUSE THERE'S A HOUSE ON IT AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A REDUCTION IN OVERALL COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, IT'S HERE IN THE TOWN. WE'VE BEEN NOTICING THAT SMALL LITTLE DECREASE THAT I'M SURE THAT THAT WOULD COINCIDE WITH THE BY-LAW CHANGING TO ALLOW RESIDENTS ON COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES. I COULD SEE THROUGH A DISCUSSION LIKE THAT COMING UP WITH A RESIDENTIAL MIX SUBCATEGORY. RESIDENTS THAT STILL HAVE COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY THAT'S HAPPENING UPON IT. BECAUSE I THINK THAT WHEN THERE ARE THOSE THAT ARE RUNNING COMMERCIAL COMPANIES OUT OF THEIR PRIVATE RESIDENTS, [01:10:02] THERE IS MORE BURDEN ON THE SERVICES THAT THE CITY PROVIDES. I'D BE VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF TALKING ABOUT SUBCATEGORY CALLED ENTERPRISE COMMERCIAL, SOMETHING ALONG THOSE AND BASING IT ON EMPLOYEES NATIONALLY. I THINK THAT THAT'S ANOTHER GREAT IDEA, SOMETHING THAT WILL REALLY HELP SUPPORT SMALL ENTREPRENEURIAL FOLKS. ANYWAY, WITH THIS DISCUSSION, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT ENOUGH FOR ME TO SAY THAT WE WOULD WANT TO MAKE IT DRAMATIC CHANGE TO IT. I THINK IF WE ALL RECALL, WE WENT THROUGH MUCH DELIBERATION ON A TAX INCREASE AND EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T HAVE TO GO THERE, WE GOT TO 2.5 PERCENT AND TO THEN FURTHER INCREASE THIS WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING THAT I COULD VOTE FOR THE RESIDENTS. CERTAINLY, IF WE WERE MAYBE HAD KEPT IT AT THE 0.86, WHERE WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT IT. POSSIBLY HAVING THIS RESHUFFLED DISCUSSION BECAUSE IT WOULD BE MORE OF AN EXACT REPRESENTATION OF WHAT THE ENVIRONMENT IS WHERE WE'VE JUST TAKEN EXTRA AMOUNTS AND TRANSFERRED THEM OFF TO OUR COMMUNITY FUNDS. ANYWAY, SO WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, IN THIS TIME I'M FOR STABILITY, I THINK THAT OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS WE'VE GONE THROUGH STABILITY AND I THINK WITHOUT HAVING SOME OF THE OTHER PIECES OF INFORMATION THAT ARE INDICATED, I'D BE VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF OPTION NUMBER 1. THANKS. >> THANK YOU. NEXT I HAVE, COUNCILLOR MUFANDAEDZA. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH MADAM CHAIR. THANK YOU ADMINISTRATION FOR ALL THIS INFORMATION. I KNOW WE DID GO THROUGH THE SAME EXERCISE LAST YEAR, BUT I FEEL THIS YEAR WE'VE GOT WAY MORE DETAIL AND I DEFINITELY WAS ABLE TO FOLLOW IT WAY BETTER THAN THE LAST ONE OR TWO YEARS. FOR ME, WHEN I GO THROUGH THIS PORTION OF THE MILL RATE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WAS THINKING ABOUT, I DEFINITELY DO HAVE A NUMBER IN MIND, WHICH IS OPTION TWO FOR ME. THE REASON I'M GOING WITH OPTION TWO IS JUST THINKING WE ARE GOING TO SEE AN INCREASE ON THE RESIDENTIAL. IT WILL NOT BE AS DRASTIC AS GOING WITH ANY OF THE OTHER OPTIONS SUCH AS THREE AND FOUR. BUT HOPING THAT IF WE GO WITH THE TWO, WE WOULD SEE A GRADUAL INCREASE OVER THE YEARS. WHEN I DID MY CALCULATIONS, I DO SEE THAT IF BY GOING WITH OPTION NUMBER 2, WE WOULD SEE, A $90 INCREASE ON IN $250,000 HOME OR $270 ON $750. THEN THE SAME INCREASE ON A COMMERCIAL, WHICH WOULD BE $30 ON A $750, $50 ON A $1.2 MILLION. FOR ME THE OPTION IS OPTION NUMBER 2. I DEFINITELY WOULD ALSO WANT TO HAVE THE DISCUSSION ON A BUSINESS INCENTIVE SO THAT WE CAN TRY TO SEE HOW WE COULD EVEN THIS FIELD FOR THE BUSINESSES IN TOWN WITHOUT USING THE MILL RATE TO GO ON A VERY DRASTIC CHANGE. I'M DEFINITELY OPEN TO THIS DISCUSSION AT A LATER DATE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION? COUNCILLOR MORSE, DID YOU WANT TO BRING FORWARD, RIGHT NOW I HAVE TWO COUNCILORS WITH OPTION 1, ONE COUNCILLOR WITH OPTION 2, AND ONE COUNCILLOR WITH OPTION 3, COUNCILLOR MORSE DID YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO YOURS. >> YES. YEAH. I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST NOT TO COMPLICATE THE DEBATE, BUT TO COMPLICATE THE DEBATE. I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST THAT WE GO WITH 2.2 EVEN. I DID THE MATH AND THAT IS ALMOST A PERFECT SPLIT BETWEEN OPTIONS 1 AND 2. I HAVE SEEN OVER THE YEARS THE BURDEN ON RESIDENTIAL DECREASE. OVERALL, I DON'T THINK I WANT TO PONTIFICATE ON WHERE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE AT, BECAUSE WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE DATA IN FRONT OF US TO SAY THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT I AM IN FAVOR OF EVENING OUT THE RATIO OF DEBT, BUT I THINK THAT WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL TO DO IT GRADUALLY. I NEVER LIKE THE IDEA OF STALKING THE SYSTEM. I THOUGHT THAT MIGHT PROVIDE A BIT OF A NICE MIDDLE GROUND WHERE WE'RE REDUCING THE BURDEN A LITTLE BIT ON COMMERCIAL, WE'RE INCREASING IT A LITTLE BIT ON RESIDENTIAL, BUT WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING DRASTIC. I ACTUALLY SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ONE AND TWO IS QUITE DRASTIC. [01:15:04] WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A COUPLE OF PERCENTAGE POINTS FOR RESIDENTS. EVEN THOUGH THE MILL RATE PERCENTAGE IS ONLY GOING UP BY POINT, WHATEVER PERCENT, IT ACTUALLY RESULTS IN THOSE SEVERAL PERCENT INCREASE FOR RESIDENTS. I THINK THAT COULD BE A DECENT COMPROMISE IF COUNCILORS ARE AMENABLE TO IT. >> THANK YOU. FOR MYSELF, I THINK I WOULD PREFER TO LOOK AT THIS AS INCENTIVES OR DEVELOPMENT THAT WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE AND CREATE A PROGRAM MORE IN THAT AREA VERSUS THE MILL RATE ISSUE. IF WE WERE WELL ABOVE OR CLOSE TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, I THINK WE'D NEED SOME WORK ON OUR MILL RATE RATIOS, BUT RIGHT NOW WE ARE UNDER THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, SO I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THE CURRENT MILL RATE. COULD IT GO TO 2.2, CAN IT GO TO 2.13? YES. PERCENTAGE WISE IT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE IN TAXES, BUT DOLLARS WISE IT'S NOT TOO MUCH FOR RESIDENTS, BUT ON THE FLIP SIDE, COMMERCIALLY, THERE'S ALSO NOT MUCH. YES, THERE IS DOLLAR FIGURE DIFFERENCE BUT AGAIN IS IT GOING TO COMPLETELY ENCOURAGE NEW BUSINESSES TO SET UP? I'M NOT SEEING THAT. I THINK OUR ENERGY CAN BE BETTER USED BY THINKING OF BUSINESS INCENTIVES AND DEVELOPMENTS AS OPPOSED TO PLAYING WITH OUR MILL RATE RATIO. FOR MYSELF I'D LIKE TO STICK WITH OPTION 1 AND FOCUS ON THE DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVE BY-LAW THAT'S COMING FORWARD, AND ALSO CONSIDER THIS AS INCENTIVES AS PER OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STRATEGY. FOLLOWING OUR RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE LAID OUT THERE. BUT WE'VE GOT JUST THREE MINUTES BEFORE OUR BREAK. COUNCILLOR MORSE, I THINK YOU'RE GOING WITH THE 2.2. IS THAT OPTION 5, I GUESS. >> I PUT IT FORWARD TO DISCUSSION OBVIOUSLY IF NO ONE'S INTERESTED IN GOING WITH IT. I'M NOT GOING TO DELIVER THE POINT. >> ANY INTEREST IN LOOKING AT A 2.2 MILL RATE RATIO? COUNCILLOR MORSE DO YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE ON OPTION 1-4. >> YEAH. I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY WHERE I LAND IN THIS DISCUSSION IS, LIKE I SAID, I'D LIKE TO BE MORE PRECISE WITH THE NUMBERS. UNLESS YOU'RE GOING FOR A VERY INCREMENTAL CHANGE, I'D RATHER STICK WITH STATUS QUO. THAT'S WHY I PUT THE 2.2 OPTION FORWARD IS THAT IT GIVES A LITTLE BIT LESS OF A BIG CHANGE THEN THE OPTION 2, WHICH I THINK OPTION 2 IS PRETTY DRASTIC, WE'RE TAKING RESIDENTS ALL THE WAY UP TO A SIX PERCENT TAX INCREASE. I THINK THAT'S WAY OUTSIDE OF INFLATION THIS YEAR AND WE HAD THAT DISCUSSION AND BUDGET. I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO REHEARSE THAT DEBATE, BUT I THINK IT COULD BE TOO BIG OF A SHOCK TO THE SYSTEM AND AN UNNECESSARY ONE. I'D BE IN FAVOR OF AN INCREMENTAL INCREASE OR NONE AT ALL. >> THANK YOU. I HAVE COUNCILLOR MORGAN, WILLIAMS AND MORSE AND MYSELF IN FAVOR OF OPTION 1 COUNCILLOR SILVERIO, OPTION 1 AS WELL, COUNCILLOR MUFANDAEDZA OPTION 2, COUNCILLOR KONGE FOR OPTION 3, COUNCILLOR SMITH, DO YOU HAVE A PREFERENCE. OPTION 1? OKAY. BRING THIS FORWARD TO COUNCIL NEXT MONDAY, WHICH IS APRIL 12TH WITH COUNCILLOR MORGAN AND THEN WILLIAM'S. YOU HAVE QUESTION? >> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, I THINK THERE WOULD BE VALUE IN ALSO TESTING ADMINISTRATION WITH LOOKING INTO THE BONNEVILLE, A BETTER EXAMPLE OF TRYING TO COME UP WITH A SMALL BUSINESS SUBCLASS RATE. EVEN JUST TO FIND OUT HOW LABOR-INTENSIVE IS THIS, HOW HARD IS IT TO GET NUMBERS ON NATIONAL EMPLOYEES? THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE BROUGHT THIS UP TO COUNCIL AS PART OF BUDGET DELIBERATIONS LAST YEAR. IT WAS OBVIOUSLY AN EXAMPLE THAT THEY HAD NOTED AND THAT WAS VALUABLE TO CONSIDER, [01:20:02] AND I THINK IT'S WORTH CONSIDERING. I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN TASKING ADMINISTRATION WITH NOT SCOURING EVERY EXAMPLE IF THERE, BUT LOOKING AT PERHAPS THE SPECIFIC ONE OR IF OTHER ONES POP UP, JUST TO GET A SENSE OF HOW LABOR-INTENSIVE IS THIS FOR STAFF TO SWITCH TO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, TO GATHER THAT AMOUNT OF DATA TO BE ABLE TO CREATE A SUBCLASS. THEN WE'VE AT LEAST DONE SOME DUE DILIGENCE TO FIND OUT WHETHER WE CAN BE A LITTLE BIT MORE TARGETED IN OUR PROPERTY CLASSES. >> YOU PREFER THAT ADMIN FOCUS ON RESEARCHING A SMALL BUSINESS SUBCATEGORY AS OPPOSED TO A BUSINESS INCENTIVE PROGRAM. >> THAT'S ALREADY PART OF THE ADMINISTRATION'S WORK PLAN AS I UNDERSTAND IT. LOOKING AT THE DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVE BY-LAW, VARIOUS OTHER THINGS YOU'VE GOT ON THE AGO. ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT WE WOULD HAVE AN ADDITIONAL TASK RIGHT NOW ON ADMINISTRATION TO LOOK AT OTHER KINDS OF INCENTIVES? [NOISE]. >> IF COUNCIL WANTED TO SET DIRECTION THAT CONSIDER MORE THAN WHAT'S CURRENTLY ON THEIR WORK PLAN, SO DIFFERENT BUSINESS INCENTIVES OUTSIDE OF THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STRATEGIES RECOMMENDATION AS WELL AS OUTSIDE THE DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVE BY-LAW, THAT SHOULD BE PART OF OUR MOTION NEXT MONDAY. IF WE WANT TO DO THAT PLUS A SMALL BUSINESS TAX SUB-CATEGORY, IT WOULD BE EXTRA WORK ON MEN'S WORK PLAN. [NOISE] MS. BASSI-KELLETT, DO YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO THE VIABILITY OF THAT? >> THANKS. JUST ONE CLARIFICATION. WE WEREN'T PLANNING THAT THIS WOULD COME FORWARD NEXT MONDAY TO COUNCIL. THIS WILL BE COMING FORWARD [NOISE] WITH AS WE TYPICALLY DO IN APRIL AFTER THE BOARD OF REVISION HAS DONE THEIR WORK, WE COME FORWARD WITH THE FINAL RATE AND TAX RATES. WE'LL BE DOING THAT SOMETIME IN APRIL, BUT WE DON'T ANTICIPATE DOING THAT ON MONDAY. IF GPC DOES HAVE SOME THOUGHTS IN TERMS OF RECOMMENDATION OR A MOTION AROUND SUPPORTING BUSINESS OR COMING WITH SOME CREATIVE IDEAS ON THAT, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN TAKE AWAY AND DIGEST AND COME BACK WITH SOME THOUGHTS ON TIMING, AND THOUGHTS ON HOW THIS FITS IN WITH THE WORK PLAN, IF ANYTHING HAS TO GIVE ON THE WORK PLAN OTHERWISE TO ACCOMMODATE THIS. THANKS. >> MY APOLOGIZE, I THOUGHT WE WERE DOING A MOTION JUST TO SET DIRECTION FOR THE MILL RATES, BUT IF THAT'S NOT REQUIRED, THIS IS ENOUGH DIRECTION FOR ADMIN TO FINALIZE THE MILL RATE FOR 2021, THAT WORKS. WE CAN TAKE SOME TIME THEN, IF COUNCILLORS ARE INTERESTED IN BRINGING FORWARD A MOTION FURTHER ABOUT A SMALL BUSINESS SUBCATEGORY TAX RATE OR A BUSINESS INCENTIVE PROGRAM THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO COME FORWARD FOR NEXT MONDAY. THAT WORKS, COUNCILLOR MORGAN? [NOISE] COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS? >> THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. I THINK IN THE DISCUSSION THOUGH THAT THERE WAS A TALK OF A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT MECHANISMS. I THINK JUST TO LIMIT THAT CONVERSATION TO JUST SIMPLY SOME TYPE OF A SMALL BUSINESS ONE. I THINK THAT THIS HAS BEEN A DISCUSSION THAT THIS COUNCIL HAS WANTED TO HAVE AND ADMINISTRATION ECHOED THAT AT THE BEGINNING OF THEIR PRESENTATION SAYING HOW INTERESTED THIS COUNCIL HAS BEEN IN THESE RATES. I THINK THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE GONE IN CIRCLES AROUND A LITTLE BIT. WE'RE GETTING CLOSER AND CLOSER TO WHAT OUR TRUE INTENTION IS, AND I THINK THIS DISCUSSION HAS CERTAINLY TAKEN THAT A LONG WAY. BECAUSE AGAIN, I HEAR COUNCILLOR MORGAN AND I WOULD LOVE HER TO BRING UP THAT IDEA AND HAVE THAT DISCUSSION. I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT A RESIDENTIAL MIX. HOW DO WE CAPTURE THOSE RESIDENTS THAT ARE MAYBE DOING SMALL HOME BASED BUSINESSES? I THINK IT'LL HAVE THINGS TO DO WITH THOSE HOMES THAT ARE OUT IN CAM LAKE AREA. I THINK HAVING A MORE WHOLESOME DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT IS OR WHAT CONSTITUTES COMMERCIAL, IS THERE A PLACE FOR SAY, COMMERCIAL RESIDENTIAL MIX AS A SUBCATEGORY? INSTEAD OF JUST GOING DIRECTLY TO THE ONE SUBCATEGORY THAT ONE COUNCILOR'S THINKING, I THINK THAT MAYBE A DISCUSSION AS A COUNCIL AS A WHOLE, TO DETERMINE MAYBE A SHORTLIST OF SUBCATEGORIES THAT COUNCIL'S INTERESTED IN PURSUING. I THINK THAT MAYBE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY AS THE NEW CART THAT WE'VE CREATED HERE. AGAIN, WE'D HAVE AN HOUR TO HASH OUT SOME OF THOSE DIFFERENCES AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT ADMINISTRATION HAS IN FOR ME. I KNOW THAT APRIL HAS ALREADY BEEN BOOKED, BUT MAYBE MAY, MAYBE JUNE, AT THAT POINT, WE WOULD HAVE THE BOARD OF REVISIONS GO OUT, MAKE THE RECOMMENDATIONS, [01:25:05] WE'D ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING TANGIBLE TO TALK ABOUT, AND THEN IT WOULD GIVE ADMINISTRATION AT LEAST SOME DIRECTION IN WHAT DIRECTION COUNCIL MAY WANT TO GO WITH THAT DISCUSSION. JUST THE THOUGHT THAT MAY CART, BUT I WOULD DEFINITELY WANT TO HAVE THAT SAME CONVERSATION THAT COUNCILLOR MORSE AND COUNCILLOR MORGAN'S TALKING ABOUT. BUT I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY WANT TO LIMIT IT TO SMALL BUSINESSES BECAUSE AGAIN, I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE OF ISSUES WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT THAT MIX IS. >> GOOD POINT. YEAH. THANK YOU. MORE OF A DISCUSSION ABOUT SUBCATEGORIES AND WHETHER THERE'S THE NEED TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF CATEGORIES THAT COUNCIL HAS. MS. BASSI-KELLETT PERHAPS YOURSELF AND STAFF CAN CHAT FURTHER AND WE CAN BRING THIS TO A FUTURE AGENDA FOR GPC, SORRY. LET'S TAKE OUR 90 MINUTE BREAK AND COME BACK AT 1:46 PM. WE HAVE QUORUM. JUST TO CONCLUDE ON THAT, STAFF WILL NOW COME FORWARD WITH THE 2021 MILL RATE AGAIN, THAT IS NEXT TIME WHEN THE BY-LAWS ARE BROUGHT FORWARD TO BE DISCUSSED. COUNCILORS, OF COURSE, CAN STILL MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO AMEND THE MILL RATIO AND WE'LL WORK ON FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE SECOND PART WHERE COUNCILORS WERE INTERESTED IN SUBCATEGORIES AND DEVELOPMENTS AND BUSINESS INCENTIVES. WE WILL WORK TO BRING THAT FORWARD TO A GPC FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION AND NARROWING DOWN THE MOTION THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DIRECT ADMINISTRATION ON. NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS A MEMORANDUM REGARDING WHETHER TO ADOPT FOR INFORMATION THE 2021, 2022 HERITAGE COMMITTEE WORK PLAN. MS. BASSI-KELLETT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE THE ITEM? >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR, ABSOLUTELY. THE HERITAGE COMMITTEE HAS SPENT A FAIR BIT OF TIME CONFIRMING ITS PRIORITIES FOR 2021 AND 2022 WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THE HERITAGE COMMITTEE'S STRATEGIC PLAN. THE WORK PLAN PROVIDES THE COMMITTEE, AND CITY ADMINISTRATION, AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC WITH CLARITY ON PRIORITIES FOR HERITAGE GOING FORWARD, AND IT ENSURES THAT WE CAN HAVE A COMMON GAME PLAN, A COMMON UNDERSTANDING TO WORK TOWARDS. WORKING CLOSELY WITH YELLOWKNIFE ON THE HISTORICAL AND TRADITIONAL USE OF THE CHIEF DRYGEESE TERRITORY, SUPPORTING THE INTERCULTURAL AND PLACE-MAKING PLAN, COMMEMORATING THE BRISTOL FREIGHTER, STREAMLINING HERITAGE FUNDING, GRANTS PROCESS, AND ACTIVELY PARTICIPATING IN THE REVIEW OF THE DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVE BY-LAW, AS WELL AS PREPARING FOR A REVISED STRATEGIC PLAN IN 2022, ARE THE MAIN THEMES FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS. WITH THIS CERTAINTY, STAFF CAN WORK TOWARDS THESE GOALS AND THEN OF COURSE, WORK WITH THE CHAIR OF THE HERITAGE COMMITTEE AND THE COMMITTEE ITSELF TO ENSURE THAT ANY ISSUES THAT COME UP ARE ADDRESSED AND VETTED THROUGH THE COMMITTEE AND THAT THEIR DIRECTION CAN CONTINUE WITHIN THIS OVERALL FRAMEWORK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR. >> THANK YOU. OPENING IT UP TO QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM COUNCIL. COUNCILLOR MORGAN, DID YOU HAVE SOME? COUNCILLOR MORGAN? >> THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. I'M JUST GOING TO BRING UP MY QUESTIONS HERE. I LOOKED, NOT ONLY AT THE PROPOSED WORK PLAN FOR THE COMING YEAR, BUT THE OVERALL FIVE-YEAR STRATEGIC PLAN THAT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS ESTABLISHED FROM 2017 TO 2022. WE'RE COMING TO NEAR THE END OF THAT FIVE-YEAR PLAN. I WAS JUST LOOKING THROUGH THE ITEMS TO SEE WHAT WAS INTENDED TO BE DONE DURING THOSE FIVE YEARS AND I FOUND A COUPLE THAT I WASN'T AWARE THAT WE'VE MADE PROGRESS ON, BUT PERHAPS WE HAVE AND I JUST HAVEN'T BEEN AWARE OF IT. I WONDERED ABOUT A COUPLE OF ITEMS. THE FIRST ONE BEING DEVELOPING AND MAINTAINING AN INVENTORY OF OUR DESIGNATED HERITAGE RESOURCES. EXPOUNDING ON THAT ANOTHER ITEM 4.2 WAS SUPPORT THE DEVELOPMENT AND EXPANSION OF DIGITAL INVENTORIES OF OUR HERITAGE PLAQUES, MURALS, THINGS. THEN THIRDLY, 4.3 WAS DOING RESEARCH AND PROVIDING RECOMMENDATIONS ON NEW AND EMERGING PLATFORMS FOR SHARING HERITAGE. I WONDERED IF WE HAVE EITHER MADE ANY PROGRESS OR HAVE ANY PLANS TO MOVE FORWARD ON ANY OF THOSE THREE ITEMS BECAUSE I DIDN'T SEE THEM IN THE WORK PLAN FOR THE COMING YEAR. [01:30:03] >> MS. BASSI-KELLETT. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE QUESTION. THE STRATEGIC PLAN WAS APPROVED IN 2017 AS A FIVE-YEAR VISION AND UNFORTUNATELY WITH WORKLOAD ON OTHER PROJECTS WITHIN PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT INCLUDING THE COMMUNITY PLAN AND NOW THE ZONING BY-LAW, WHICH OUR COMMUNITY PLAN HAVE BEEN WORKING ON SINCE 2017 UNTIL 2020 AND THE COMMUNITY PLAN, OF COURSE, SINCE 2020. WE SIMPLY HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THESE. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY'RE NOT IMPORTANT, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY WILL NOT CONTINUE TO BE ITEMS THAT WE LOOK TO, IN TERMS OF HOW WE SUPPORT THIS KIND OF WORK GOING FORWARD. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET TO THESE GIVEN WORKLOAD OF THE DEPARTMENT THAT SUPPORTS THE HERITAGE COMMITTEE AT THIS TIME. THANK YOU. >> WELL, FIRST I'M ACTUALLY WONDERING, GIVEN THAT IT LOOKS LIKE THERE HAS BEEN A NEED TO RE-PRIORITIZE WHICH ITEMS FROM THAT FIVE-YEAR STRATEGIC PLAN CAN REALISTICALLY BE ACCOMPLISHED WITHIN THE TIME PERIOD AND THEN SEE WHAT CAN BE DONE WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR. TO WHAT EXTENT WAS THE HERITAGE COMMITTEE INVOLVED IN HELPING TO PRIORITIZE? IF WE CAN'T DO EVERYTHING, WHICH KINDS OF THINGS WOULD BE THE HIGHEST PRIORITY THAT THEY'D RECOMMEND? OR WAS THAT MADE INTERNALLY JUST BASED ON WHAT STAFF AND OTHER RESOURCES YOU THOUGHT YOU HAD? >> THAT WAS DISCUSSED AT OUR LAST HERITAGE COMMITTEE MEETING? >> [NOISE] I'M ALSO UNCLEAR WITH BOTH THE WORK PLAN AND THE STRATEGIC PLAN OVERALL. TO WHAT EXTENT ARE THESE ACTION ITEMS, THINGS THAT THE HERITAGE COMMITTEE ITSELF IS TASKING ITSELF TO WORK ON? OR ARE ALL OF THESE ACTION ITEMS, THINGS THAT ADMINISTRATION OR OUR PLANNING DEPARTMENT STAFF ARE SUPPOSED TO DO ON THEIR OWN? >> LOT OF IT IS JUST LIKE COUNCIL, STAFF DO THE WORK, THEY BRING FORWARD RECOMMENDATIONS, COMMITTEE REVIEWS AND APPROVES IT. HOWEVER, ONE OF THE ITEMS IS BEING A STAKEHOLDER IN THE UPCOMING DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVE BY-LAW BECAUSE OF FOLKS WHO'VE TAKEN A LOOK AT THE DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVE BY-LAW, THERE'S A HERITAGE COMPONENT OF IT BUT A LOT OF IT IS, YOU ATTEND THE COMMITTEE AND PROVIDE COMMENTS BASED ON ADMIN'S RECOMMENDATIONS. COUNCILLOR MORSE, DID YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING AS THE CHAIR? >> THANKS. I WAS JUST TYPING THAT IN THAT I COULD PERHAPS PROVIDE A BIT OF INSIGHT AS WELL. [NOISE] YEAH, I MEAN, THERE'S A BIT OF A HISTORY WITH THE HERITAGE COMMITTEE SINCE I STARTED AS CHAIR. WHEN I CAME ON, THE COMMITTEE WAS PRETTY OPERATIONAL IN THAT THE COMMITTEE WAS DOING A FAIR BIT OF WORK WHICH DID HAVE A SUITE OF PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH IT ON ITS OWN AND THAT ADMINISTRATION DIDN'T FEEL THAT THEY HAD AS MUCH [INAUDIBLE] AS THEY NEEDED OVER HOW PROJECTS WERE BEING IMPLEMENTED. THINGS WERE A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT AND THIS WAS FIVE YEARS AGO NOW, SIX REALLY THAT I WORKED WITH THE ADMINISTRATION TO RESTRUCTURE HOW THE COMMITTEE WAS WORKING AND MAKE THE COMMITTEE MORE ORIENTED TOWARDS BEING ADVISORY. THE INTERESTING THING THAT HAPPENED FROM THAT IS THAT THE COMMITTEE WAS SPENDING A LOT OF TIME PROVIDING ADVICE DIRECTLY TO ADMINISTRATION, WHICH AGAIN, I THINK IS NOT QUITE THE ORIENTATION THAT WE'RE REALLY SHOOTING FOR WITH THESE COMMITTEES IS THAT THE COMMITTEES ARE TO BE ADVISING COUNCIL WHO THEN TASK ADMINISTRATION WITH WORK. THAT'S [LAUGHTER] THE NEW PARADIGM THAT THE COMMITTEE IS WORKING TOWARDS AND IT'S A TOUGH ONE. I MEAN, YOU GET PEOPLE ON THE COMMITTEE WHO ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELD. WE'VE HAD VERY MANY PEOPLE. THE SPECIFIC STRATEGIC ITEMS THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO THERE, WE HAD A COUPLE OF PEOPLE WHO HAD A BACKGROUND AS ARCHAEOLOGISTS, PEOPLE WHO HAD EXPERTISE IN ARCHIVING. THAT'S WHERE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS CAME FROM AND OF COURSE, PEOPLE MOVE ON. THE VOICE THAT ADVOCATED FOR THAT TO BE A PRIORITY, MAY HAVE LEFT THE COMMITTEE IN THE TIME AND SO THE COMMITTEE JUST FOCUSES ON A WIDER DIRECTION. BUT YEAH, IT'S BEEN A BIT OF A DIFFICULT ONE IN TERMS OF PINPOINTING EXACTLY WHAT THE PERFECT BALANCE IS BETWEEN THE ADMINISTRATION BEING TASKED WITH WORK, COUNCIL BEING ADVISED BY THE COMMITTEE AND I BELIEVE THAT COUNCIL NEEDS MORE HERITAGE ADVICE, NOT LESS. [01:35:03] I THINK THERE'S QUITE A FEW ITEMS WHERE THERE ARE HERITAGE MATTERS IN PLAY, AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY HIGHLIGHTED THE WAY IT COULD BE FOR BOTH THE COMMITTEE AND FOR COUNCILS. THAT'S A CHANGE THAT I THINK THAT WE COULD TRY TO WORK TOWARDS. THE OTHER SIDE OF IT IS JUST THAT YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE WITH A CERTAIN LEVEL OF EXPERTISE WHO COULD BE CONTRIBUTING MORE BUT THE TOUGH THING IS THAT IT REMOVES THE CONTROL A LITTLE BIT FROM ADMINISTRATION AND EVEN COUNCIL IS THE COMMITTEE IS OFF ON ITS OWN AND YOU HAVE TO THINK OF IT AS WELL YELLOWKNIFE HAS A HERITAGE SOCIETY IS THE WORK THAT THE COMMITTEE HAS BEEN DOING BETTER SITUATED IN AN NGO WHO PROMOTES HERITAGE IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT YEAH. I MEAN, MY FEELING IS THAT WE HAVEN'T QUITE HIT THE PERFECT BALANCE JUST YET, BECAUSE THERE'S A PLACE FOR HERITAGE COMMUNITY AND THE COMMUNITY, HAVING AN NGO WOULD BE FINE BUT THEN YOU GET INTO THE QUESTION OF, WELL, ARE THEY RAISING PLAQUES? DO THOSE PLAQUES SPEAK FOR THE COMMUNITY OR DID THEY SPEAK FOR THAT SOCIETY? THAT'S WHERE YOU GET INTO SOME DIFFICULTY BECAUSE I MEAN, OF COURSE WE'VE GOT INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS, WE'VE GOT THE YQDFN, WHO HAVE A RICH HERITAGE HERE THAT HASN'T NECESSARILY BEEN REPRESENTED AS WELL AS IT COULD BY THE COMMITTEE. YEAH, LOTS OF HISTORY THERE, NO PUN INTENDED ON THAT, BUT YEAH. I THINK THAT WE'RE STILL WORKING ON FINDING THE BALANCE. [NOISE] ULTIMATELY ON THE ITEMS THAT YOU SPOKE TO, LIKE I SAID, I THINK THAT REALLY WHAT'S HAPPENED THERE IS THAT SOME OF THE MEMBERS THAT WERE PUSHING FOR THOSE KINDS OF INITIATIVES HAVE MOVED ON AND WE'VE GOT NEW VOICES ON THE COMMITTEE THAT ARE PUSHING FOR NEW THINGS, WHICH MAKES SENSE. I MEAN, OVER A SPAN OF FIVE YEARS, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE CHANGES IN THE COMMITTEE IN THE FOCUS. AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, THERE'S LIMITED RESOURCES TO WORK WITH IN ADMINISTRATION WHO HAVE LOTS OF IMPORTANT WORK TO DEAL WITH. SOMETHING I HAVE DISCUSSED WITH ADMINISTRATION A LITTLE BIT BEHIND THE SCENES IS THE POSSIBILITY THAT PERHAPS THE HERITAGE COMMITTEE DOESN'T NEED TO BE SUPPORTED BY ONE SINGLE DEPARTMENT. SOMETHING THAT HAS STOOD OUT TO ME OVER THE YEARS IS THAT PLANNING AND LANDS IS A VERY BUSY DEPARTMENT THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS A BUNCH OF TIME, WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS AS A COUNCIL QUITE A BIT, AND THEY ARE TASKED WITH VERY IMPORTANT WORK THAT IS TIMELINE ORIENTED AND WE DON'T WANT TO BE SLOWING THAT WORK DOWN. A LOT OF WHAT THE HERITAGE COMMITTEE TOO DO I DEFINE IS ORIENTED TOWARDS THINGS THAT THE COMMUNITY SERVICES DEPARTMENT DEALS WITH LIKE [INAUDIBLE]. I THINK, PARKS AND HERITAGE FALL INTO SIMILAR ARENAS. MY FEELING AS A COUNCILLOR IS THAT PERHAPS THE COUNCIL DOESN'T NEED TO BE TASKING ONE DEPARTMENT IN ADMINISTRATION, ALL OF THE WORK RELATED TO THE COMMITTEE AND I THINK THAT THAT COULD, IN MY OPINION, HELP US SPREAD OUT THE WORKLOAD AND ALLOW THE COMMITTEE TO ACHIEVE THINGS THAT IT'S NOT CURRENTLY ACHIEVING. MY PERSONAL ASSESSMENT AFTER A FEW YEARS OF CHAIRING THIS COMMITTEE IS THAT WHEN HERITAGE MATTERS ARE NEGLECTED, CITIZENS DO SPEAK UP. IT IS SOMETHING THAT'S IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE. WE TALKED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE NEEDED A HERITAGE COMMITTEE AS A COUNCIL A FEW MONTHS AGO AND THE CONCLUSION WAS A RESOUNDING YES, WE WANT TO KEEP THE COMMITTEE BUT I THINK THAT WE WERE NOT NECESSARILY PUTTING AS MANY RESOURCES TOWARDS IT AS WE WOULD NEED TO TO ACHIEVE ALL OF THE HERITAGE RELATED INITIATIVES THAT CITIZENS ARE BRINGING FORWARD. WE CERTAINLY DO HAVE CITIZENS THAT ARE APPROACHING THE COMMITTEE WITH IDEAS THAT THE COMMITTEE IS SIMPLY JUST HAVING TO SAY NO, WE CAN'T DO THAT. WE DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES FOR IT, WE NEED TO PUT OUR TIME AND OTHER THINGS. I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE COUNCIL SHOULD BE AWARE OF IS THE FACT THAT AGAIN, AS CHAIR, I'VE HAD THE DIFFICULT JOB OF SAYING NO TO PEOPLE QUITE A BIT AND I THINK IT FRUSTRATES PEOPLE AND LEAVES THEM FEELING LIKE THE CITY DOESN'T CARE ABOUT HERITAGE RELATED MATTERS. I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S THE CASE. I THINK WE DO CARE. IT'S JUST THAT AS ALWAYS OUR CHALLENGE IS AS A SMALL GOVERNMENT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE A LOT WITH A LIMITED WORKFORCE AND WE'VE GOT TO PRIORITIZE THINGS. THERE'S JUST CERTAIN MATTERS THAT ARE GOING TO NOT BE AS HIGH PRIORITY AS THINGS LIKE HERITAGE. I MEAN, HERITAGE PRESERVATION IN THE COMMUNITY, I THINK IS CONSIDERED A NICE TO HAVE WHEREAS HOUSING, SEWERS, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, THOSE AREN'T OPTIONAL BUT NEVERTHELESS IT'S IMPORTANT. [NOISE] THOSE ARE MY OVERARCHING THOUGHTS. I PROBABLY HAVE OVER ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION AT THIS POINT, BUT I THINK THESE ARE MATTERS THAT THE COUNCIL SHOULD BE CONSIDERING AND PERHAPS WE DON'T HAVE PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HERITAGE AS MUCH AS WE PERHAPS COULD. I JUST THOUGHT I'D TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE COLLEAGUES WITH A OVERARCHING UPDATE AS TO WHERE THINGS ARE AT. [01:40:02] >> THANK YOU. AGAIN THE QUICK POINT IS BASED ON OUR RECENT GOVERNANCE REVIEW. COMMITTEES ARE PROVIDING RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL AND, SO WITH THAT COUNCIL SHOULD BE SETTING DIRECTION ON WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR THE COMMITTEE TO WORK ON. THEY DO GET HIT BY LOTS OF DIFFERENT REQUESTS, AND SO THEY CAN SAY, WELL, COUNCILS ACTUALLY DIRECTED US TO WORK ON X, Y, AND Z THIS YEAR, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE WORKING ON. WE'LL TAKE YOUR YOUR FEEDBACK INTO CONSIDERATION SO THAT WE CAN CONSIDER IT FOR FUTURE WORK PLANS THAT WE'LL PRESENT TO COUNCIL. AGAIN, THEY'LL BE ABLE TO HEAR FROM THE COMMUNITY THROUGHOUT THE YEAR BUT THEY ONCE A YEAR BE PROVIDING A WORK PLAN TO COUNCIL ON RECOMMENDATIONS ON ITEMS THAT THEY SHOULD BE WORKING ON. >> OKAY. YEAH, THANKS FOR GIVING US MORE BACKGROUND ON HOW THE GOVERNANCE OF THE COMMITTEE WORKS AND HOW DECISIONS GET MADE, AND WORK IS DISTRIBUTED OR WHO'S RESPONSIBLE. I'M IMAGINING THAT PERHAPS NEXT YEAR OR MAYBE EVEN STARTING THIS YEAR, THE COMMITTEE MIGHT BE WORKING ON ANOTHER FIVE-YEAR PLAN. WAS THAT THE INTENTION? >> ONE OF THE ACTION ITEMS IN THE WORK PLAN IS NUMBER 6, CONDUCT AN ANNUAL REVIEW OF THE HERITAGE STRATEGIC PLAN. I THINK AFTER THEY DO THAT STEP CAN DETERMINE WHETHER IT NEEDS TO BE UPDATED OR CONTINUE ON. >> IT CERTAINLY MAKES SENSE IF SOME OF THE ITEMS IN THAT PLAN MAYBE ARE NO LONGER PRIORITIES OR OBVIOUSLY YOU REVISIT AND SEE, OKAY, WELL WHAT HAVEN'T WE DONE? HOW IMPORTANT IS IT? MAYBE WE DON'T NEED TO DO IT AFTER ALL, OR MAYBE WE NEED TO REALLY REFOCUS EFFORTS, AND MAKE SURE THAT IT'S REALLY GETS DONE NEXT TIME, BUT I'M WONDERING AS A POSSIBLE ALTERNATIVE STRATEGY, IF STAFF IS FEELING OVERLOADED WITH VARIOUS ACTION ITEMS, WHETHER SOME DISCRETE PROJECTS MIGHT BE CONTRACTED OUT AND WHETHER ANY OF THAT COULD COME FROM THE HERITAGE FUND OR THE HERITAGE RESERVE. IS THAT AN OPTION THAT THE COMMITTEE AND COUNCIL COULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT TO BE MORE FLEXIBLE ABOUT HOW THINGS COULD GET DONE ON THESE WORK PLANS OR STRATEGIC PLAN? >> THAT'S INCLUDED IN THIS WORK PLAN WOULD BE SOME OF IT WILL REVOLVE USING HERITAGE DOLLARS AND CONTRACTING SOME OF IT OUT. >> ARE YOU SAYING THAT SOME OF IT WOULD HAVE TO BE DELIBERATED BY COUNCIL AT BUDGET TIME TO COME FROM THE CITY'S MAIN POOL OF RESOURCES? >> DEPENDING ON WHAT THE NUMBER 1 IS, THE YELLOWKNIFE'S YKDFN TERRITORIAL LAND ACKNOWLEDGMENTS. WE'RE LOOKING AT CREATING A PROJECT THAT WILL HONOR AND RECOGNIZE CHIEF DRYGEESE LAND. THIS ONE CAME FORWARD LAST SUMMER FROM ONE OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS AND WAS TALKING ABOUT A PLAQUE, AND THEN SINCE THEN, THE IDEA HAS GROWN AND IT'S LIKE, IS IT JUST A PLAQUE OR IS IT A BIT MORE OF AN ART INSTALLATION? IF THAT NEEDS FURTHER FUNDING, THAT WOULD HAVE TO COME TO COUNCIL AT BUDGET TIME. >> OKAY. [OVERLAPPING] NEXT YEAR, IF THERE'S YES, BRISTOL SITE SHOULD BE DEVELOPED MORE, THAT WOULD HAVE TO COME FORWARD TO COUNCIL IF IT'S OVER A $30,000 PROJECT. >> OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T HAVE SPECIFIC DIRECTIVES NOW OR CERTAINLY NOT CRITICISM BECAUSE I HAVEN'T BEEN IN THE THICK OF HOW THIS WORK PLANS OR THE STRATEGIC PLAN HAS BEEN ROLLING OUT OVER THE YEARS, BUT OVERALL, I WOULD JUST WANT US TO DO OUR BEST. FIRST TO COME UP WITH WORK PLANS OR THE STRATEGIC PLANS THAT WE THINK ARE REALISTIC THAT WE CAN MAKE GOOD ON OUR INTENTIONS AND PROMISES SO THAT PEOPLE DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'RE PROMISING THINGS AND THEN DISAPPOINTING THEM IF WE DON'T MANAGE TO CARRY THROUGH WITH IT. THEN JUST ACKNOWLEDGING LIMITED STAFF RESOURCES, ENSURING WE'RE TRYING TO BE AS FLEXIBLE AS POSSIBLE, LOOKING AT WHETHER DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS CAN WORK ON DIFFERENT THINGS OR IF THINGS COULD BE CONTRACTED OUT. I KNOW THAT YOU GUYS DO THAT ALL THE TIME, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL THE COMMITTEES WE HAVE FEEL LIKE THE WORK THAT THEY'RE PUTTING ALL THIS TIME INTO AND VOLUNTEERING IS MAKING PROGRESS, AND THEY'RE SEEING RESULTS AND THEY'RE SEEING THAT THEIR INPUT [01:45:01] AND CONTRIBUTIONS ARE VALID AND BEING USED, AND HELPING TO MOVE US ALL FORWARD AND PEOPLE AREN'T SPINNING THEIR WHEELS. I'M SURE THAT YOU GUYS ALL KNOW THIS, BUT THOSE ARE MY MAIN CONCERNS AND PRIORITIES AROUND THIS COMMITTEE AND OTHERS. THANKS. >> THANKS. THAT'S EXACTLY WHY THIS WORK PLAN IS COMING FORWARD. IT'S A ROADMAP NOW FOR THE YEAR THAT ADMIN AND THE COMMITTEE PROVIDED FEEDBACK ON AND SAID, YEAH, THIS IS ACHIEVABLE BASED ON THE BUDGET AND STAFF RESOURCES, AND TO NOTE, ONCE OR IF COUNCIL APPROVES THIS, THEN MS. BASSI-KELLETT WILL WORK WITH STAFF TO DELEGATE PROJECTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RIGHT DEPARTMENT IS WORKING ON ISSUES AND THAT THEIR WORKLOADS BALANCE ACROSS THE ORGANIZATION. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM COUNCIL COMMITTEE? SEEING NONE, WE WILL BRING THIS FORWARD TO COUNCIL NEXT MONDAY NIGHT FOR FORMAL APPROVAL. NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS HERITAGE COMMITTEE MEETING. THE MINUTES, YEAH, WHICH INCLUDES WHEN WE REVIEWED AND VALIDATED THE WORK PLANS. ANY QUESTIONS ON THE HERITAGE COMMITTEE MINUTES? SEEING NONE, NEXT, WE HAVE A MEMORANDUM REGARDING BUDGET 2021, FUNDING UPDATE, MS. BASSI-KELLETT? >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM CHAIR. YES, WHEN COUNCIL APPROVED BUDGET 2021 IN DECEMBER OF LAST YEAR, THERE WERE SOME ANTICIPATED REVENUES ADMINISTRATION WAS HOPEFUL THAT WE WOULD RECEIVE, BUT WE HAD RECEIVED NEITHER THE FUNDS NOR WRITTEN CONFIRMATION AT THE TIME. THIS INCLUDED 1.5 MILLION IN ONE TIME COVID RELIEF FUNDING CHANNELED TO THE GNWT, $130,000 IN ONE-TIME FUNDING TOWARDS OUR YK STREET OUTREACH, SAFE RIDE VAN, AND $855,000 IN ENHANCED MANDATE FUNDING WHICH IS AN ONGOING TOP UP TO OUR FORMULA FUNDING FROM MACA. WE'RE VERY PLEASED TO CONFIRM TODAY WITH GPC THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED ALL THREE OF THESE REVENUES AND WE WANT TO EXPRESS, OF COURSE, OUR GREAT APPRECIATION TO THE GNWT AND THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA FOR THEIR SUPPORT AND FOR THESE REVENUES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU, GREAT TO HEAR. THANK YOU TO THE OTHER LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT FOR THEIR SUPPORT. MUCH APPRECIATE IT. ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COUNCIL? SEEING NONE. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE BUDGET UPDATE. FINALLY, WE HAVE A MEMORANDUM REGARDING WHETHER TO REVIEW AND APPOINT MEMBERS OF COUNCIL AS REPRESENTATIVES ON THE SPECIAL COMMITTEES OF COUNCIL. I'LL JUST VERBALLY GO THROUGH AUDIT COMMITTEE, COUNCILLOR MUFANDAEDZA HAS PUT HER NAME FORWARD, THE BOARD OF REVISIONS COUNCILLOR KONGE HAS PUT HIS NAME FORWARD FOR PRIMARY, [APPLAUSE] HAS PUT HIS NAME FORWARD FOR ALTERNATE COMBATIVE SPORTS COMMISSION. MY APOLOGIES. THERE'S ACTUALLY ONLY ONE SPOT AS PER THE TERMS OF REFERENCE. COUNCILLOR SMITH HAS PUT HER NAME FORWARD. FOR THE DEVELOPMENT APPEAL BOARD, COUNCILLOR PAYNE HAS PUT HIS NAME FORWARD AS THE ALTERNATE. FOR THE GRANT REVIEW COMMITTEE, WHICH HAS TWO SPOTS, COUNCILLOR PAYNE AND COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS HAVE PUT THEIR NAME FORWARD FOR THE MAYOR'S TASK FORCE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENTS, COUNCILLOR MORSE HAS PUT HIS NAME FORWARD. CAB, WE HAVE COUNCILLOR SMITH AND COUNCILLOR MORGAN WHO'VE BOTH PUT THEIR NAME FORWARD. IT IS ONE SPOT, SO WE WILL GET TO THAT ONE SHORTLY, AND HERITAGE COMMITTEE WILL DISCUSS AN APPOINTMENT FOLLOWING THE DISCUSSION ON CAB APPOINTMENTS. WITH THAT, I WILL JUST OPEN IT UP TO COUNCILLOR SMITH AND THEN COUNCILLOR MORGAN, JUST TO SAY A LITTLE BIT WHY YOU WANT TO BE THE CHAIR OF CAB AND WHAT YOU'RE HOPING TO BRING TO THE COMMITTEE IN THE UPCOMING YEAR. COUNCILLOR SMITH, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO YOU FIRST. >> THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. I WOULD ACTUALLY LIKE TO REMOVE MY NAME. I THOUGHT ABOUT IT AND WE'VE DONE SOME REALLY GREAT WORK WITH CAB AND I THINK THERE'S NOW BEEN [NOISE] A SHIFT WITHIN CAB AND WITHIN THE COMMUNITY. MY WHOLE PREMISE OF BEING ON CAB WAS TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE INDIGENOUS REPRESENTATION, AND SINCE THEN, WE'VE SEEN THAT THE COMMITTEE HAS GROWN AND OUR OCCUPANCY HAS NOW INCLUDED THOSE WITH LIVED EXPERIENCE AND WE HAVE MORE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE ON THE COMMITTEE. THAT IN ITSELF AND JUST HAVING GONE THROUGH THIS THIS PAST YEAR, WHICH WAS VERY TUMULTUOUS AND I'VE NEVER HAD SO MANY MEETINGS IN MY LIFE. BUT I THINK AT THIS POINT, [01:50:02] WE'VE DONE SOME REALLY GREAT WORK AND I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COUNCILLOR MORGAN TO PUT HER STAMP ON IT AS WELL. IN WHICH CASE, I WOULD LIKE TO PUT MY NAME FORWARD FOR THE HERITAGE COMMITTEE. >> AWESOME. THANK YOU. KUDOS ON ALL THE WORK YOU'VE DONE WITH CAB AND THERE WERE DEFINITELY HOURS WORTH OF MEETINGS. I WAS HOPING YOU WERE GOING TO ACTUALLY PUT YOUR NAME WORD FOR HERITAGE COMMITTEE AS WELL BECAUSE WE'VE GOT SOME REALLY EXCITING PROJECTS WORKING WITH THE YKDFN, SO LOOK FORWARD TO SEE YOU CHAIRING THAT COMMITTEE. WITH THAT, IF THERE'S NO FURTHER CHANGES, COUNCILORS ARE ALL GOOD WITH THAT, YEAH. COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS. >> YOU'RE MUTED, ROBIN. >> YEAH. YOUR COMPUTER IS JUST HAVING TECH ISSUES? >> YEAH. >> ALL RIGHT, THERE. SORRY. IT JUST TAKES ABOUT 20 SECONDS FOR EITHER MY CAMERA TO TURN IT ON AND OFF OR MY MIC. I THINK I'VE GOT TO UNDO TRAFFIC. WHAT ABOUT THE CHAIR POSITION FOR THE GRANT REVIEW COMMITTEE BECAUSE THERE'S TWO COUNCILORS UP FOR IT. I THINK COUNCILLOR PAYNE WAS THE PREVIOUS CHAIR. I WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS MY INTEREST IN CHAIRING FOR THE UPCOMING YEAR, IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, AND I'D BE CERTAINLY HAPPY [NOISE] TO DISCUSS THAT, ANYBODY. >> YEAH. I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE IN YOU TAKING ON THE CHAIRMANSHIP AND PARTICULARLY WITH COUNCILLOR PAYNE BEING DEPUTY MAYOR. ANY OBJECTIONS TO COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS TAKING OVER CHAIR OF GRANT REVIEW? OR BEING APPOINTED CHAIR OF GRANT REVIEW THIS YEAR? SEEING NO OBJECTIONS, THERE WE GO. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COUNCIL? COUNCILLOR MORSE? >> THANKS. JUST A COMMENT. I REALLY APPRECIATE COUNCILLOR SMITH. YOU PUTTING YOUR NAME FORWARD FOR HERITAGE COMMITTEE, IT'S ONE, AS YOU GUYS CAN SEE, THAT I CHOSE NOT TO PUT MY NAME FORWARD FOR AGAIN THIS YEAR. I'VE BEEN CHAIRING IT FOR A LONG TIME. WE'VE DONE A TON OF GOOD WORK AND WITH THE NEW WORK PLAN, I FELT LIKE THIS WAS ACTUALLY A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO BRING SOME NEW BLOOD ONTO THE COMMITTEE AND COUNCILLOR SMITH, YOU WERE THE PERSON I HAD IN MIND BECAUSE WE'RE DOING THAT EXCITING AND IMPORTANT PROJECT. THE LAND ACKNOWLEDGMENT WITH YKDFN AND I THINK HAVING INDIGENOUS LEADERSHIP ON THE COMMITTEE WILL BE AN EXCELLENT ASSET FOR THAT. I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING YOUR NAME FORWARD. I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A GREAT CHANGE FOR THE COMMITTEE AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SINKING MY TEETH INTO ECDEV, WHICH YOU GUYS ALL KNOW I'M VERY OPINIONATED ABOUT. SO LOOKING FORWARD TO ADDING A VOICE TO THAT AS WELL. >> I LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING YOU ON IT. >> COUNCILLOR MORGAN? >> THANKS. I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANKS TO THE COUNCILLOR SMITH FOR ALL YOUR WORK OVER THESE SEVERAL YEARS ON THE CAB. I KNOW IT DOESN'T MEET QUITE OFTEN FOR QUITE A LONG TIME AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'VE GOTTEN MYSELF INTO HERE, BUT YOU'VE HAD AN INCREDIBLE COMMITMENT TO THAT COMMITTEE SO FAR AND NOW THAT I DON'T HAVE THE ENERGY COMMITTEE, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THROWING MY ENERGY INTO A NEW COMMITTEE HERE, BUT I'M GRATEFUL FOR HOW FAR YOU'VE TAKEN THE COMMITTEE. >> THANK YOU. ANYTHING FURTHER FROM COUNCIL? SEEING NONE, WE WILL BRING THAT FORWARD TO COUNCIL NEXT MONDAY AT 7:00 PM. WITH THAT, DOUBLE-CHECK, YEAH. THAT'S THE END OF OUR AGENDA. MOTION TO ADJOURN MOVED BY COUNCILLOR SMITH, SECONDED BY COUNCILLOR WILLIAMS. NOBODY OPPOSED? PERFECT. SEE YOU GUYS NEXT MONDAY. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.